Storm Cellars/Tornado Sirens

[conestogo_flood]

Why aren't tornado shelters "mandatory" in the central USA? All those interviews, people don't have them. They always hide in the bathroom or a closet. You'd think in a country with 1,200 tornadoes a year, houses would be built with one... in-ground or above ground. That is just outrageous that they aren't.

How expensive are they?

[Extremeweatherguy]

I don't know, but I find it equally odd that most of the country does not have storm sirens. For example...Florida is either #1 or #2 for statewide tornadoes per year (though most are weak), yet most areas do not have sirens. also, the Houston area sees a their fair share of tornadic storms as well and there are no sirens here either. Wouldn't it be logical to put sirens anywhere that there is a decent risk of a tornado each year? No wonder 47 died in the 1998 Central Florida outbreak (in the middle of the night) THERE WERE NO SIRENS TO WARN PEOPLE!

[conestogo_flood]

Tornado sirens are meant to be heard outdoors only. On the topic, southern Ontario doesn't have tornado sirens.

Parts of Essex County in extreme southern Ontario and Lambton County possess tornado sirens, but the rest of here is fairly free of them. When I asked my local EMA director, he said tornado sirens are needed in Oklahoma, where severe weather is a certain. Ontario has 15-20 tornadoes per year, that seems enough to warrant tornado sirens. Also, my county had 2 tornado warnings from 1990 to 1999, since 2000 there has been 11 tornado warnings for this county. Only one confirmed tornado mind you, an F0... but it seems like we do need them to me.

Also, Environment Canada just introduced weather radios with SAME technology. Only problem is, you can't buy weather radios in Canada.

Honestly, it is going to take a major tornado outbreak that will kill a good number for things to change around here. Tornado threat isn't taken seriously here.

Also, our weather office is hesitant to issue tornado warnings unless a tornado is spotted, and sometimes they just include in the tstorm warning "a tornado was reported with this storm".

[Skywatch_NC]

I don't know, but I find it equally odd that most of the country does not have storm sirens. For example...Florida is either #1 or #2 for statewide tornadoes per year (though most are weak), yet most areas do not have sirens. also, the Houston area sees a their fair share of tornadic storms as well and there are no sirens here either. Wouldn't it be logical to put sirens anywhere that there is a decent risk of a tornado each year? No wonder 47 died in the 1998 Central Florida outbreak (in the middle of the night) THERE WERE NO SIRENS TO WARN PEOPLE!

Was just telling my Mom the other day how odd for ie., too, that Raleigh doesn't have any tornado sirens...I mean we're of course in the Southeast tornado zone part of the nation. Montgomery, Birmingham, Atlanta, etc., have them...I have a hard time thinking it's just a budget issue...and if so $$$$ ahead of human lives and safety. As some families and individuals out there don't all have a computer (at least for home use), TV or weather radio.

A major outbreak of killer tornadoes occurred in NC on March 28th, 1984 for ie. And a deadly one touched down in a part of Raleigh in November 1988. Majority of homes here in central NC lack basements, also.

Makes me miss my days in Ohio where we had the sirens.

Eric

[simplykristi]

I live in the greater KC area. We have a basement. We also have a tornado siren less than a block from our house.

Kristi

[Dr. Jonah Rainwater]

Nobody has basements or cellars in North Texas. The water table is too high. My tornado plan consists of taking the family and pets into the master bedroom closet, taking down anything that might fall off the shelves, and hiding under a mattress. We live in a second-floor apartment.

Luckily, we haven't had to use that plan yet...

[conestogo_flood]

Well, here in southern Ontario with a crappy weather agency, a severe thunderstorm warning for me consists of watching for a tornado from my home, on tornado risk days. If anything looks dangerous, we hit the basement, we don't wait for Environment Canada's delayed by 20 minutes tornado warnings. Most tornado survivor stories here consist of, we saw the tornado on our doorstep, or there wasn't any warning. I am not willing to take the chance of waiting it out. We already have a kit ready, and we clear out the cold cellar in tornado season.

[CrazyC83]

Well, here in southern Ontario with a crappy weather agency, a severe thunderstorm warning for me consists of watching for a tornado from my home, on tornado risk days. If anything looks dangerous, we hit the basement, we don't wait for Environment Canada's delayed by 20 minutes tornado warnings. Most tornado survivor stories here consist of, we saw the tornado on our doorstep, or there wasn't any warning. I am not willing to take the chance of waiting it out. We already have a kit ready, and we clear out the cold cellar in tornado season.

I always assess the situation ahead of time. I don't remember tornado warnings happening much AT ALL before 1998 - I don't know what made them step it up then.

There are only five regional offices that are in charge of all weather warnings in Canada - in Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal and Halifax. In all of Ontario, the forecasting is done out of Toronto. There should be five regional offices in Ontario alone (Toronto, London, Ottawa, Sudbury, Thunder Bay), not just Canada.

A lot of my predictions come from US sites and models.

[conestogo_flood]

There is one in Winnipeg too, it's Ontario's secondary weather office. Example, August 19, 2005. The tornado warning for Toronto prompted the Downsview office to be evacuated to the basement, so the office in Winnipeg took over. Also, I talked to a met from the Winnipeg office, and he issued the tornado warning for Perth and Waterloo counties, on a storm that he was watching for quite some time with heavy rotation. The Toronto office didn't bother with it, the storm soon produced a tornado after the warning was issued.

That again, shows the Ontario office mets mind-sets are hesitant , as to those on the Prairies where tornadoes are more likely.

[senorpepr]

A couple reasons why basements aren't more common is 1) the water table and 2) the soil composition. If the water table is too high, building a basement is basically building an indoor pool. Also, in the central states, the soil, especially near rivers, tend to let water flow freely. Many problems with basements are caused by water-soaked soil, allowing flooding problems for basements and even foundation problems. Also, in some regions, the soil is too rocky. The limestone is too difficult to cut through.

Now... as for the tornado siren comment... tornado sirens are a bad safety net. Too many people put their trust into them when they are meant for those outside only. As it is, tornado sirens are rather difficult to hear on a normal day. Add heavy rain, hail, gusty winds, and thunder... the siren is nearly impossible to hear. That is why weather radios are stressed. Weather radios should be like smoke alarms--there should be at least on in every home and the batteries should be changed frequently.

[therock1811]

Have one about 2 blocks from my home, and we can hear it inside. In fact it sounded last night when we had a Severe Thunderstorm Warning with the Tornado Watch in effect. They sound them for that just to be on the safe side.

[simplykristi]

I am glad to have the safety of my basement. It is also where my room is. If I need to know what the weather is doing, I just check the internet and track the storms that way. I need a visual.

Kristi

[TexasStooge]

Nobody has basements or cellars in North Texas. The water table is too high. My tornado plan consists of taking the family and pets into the master bedroom closet, taking down anything that might fall off the shelves, and hiding under a mattress. We live in a second-floor apartment.

Luckily, we haven't had to use that plan yet...

Mine's the same story, except my family uses the bathroom as shelter from the tornadoes, and we had to use that plan a coule of times.

We'e sandwiched between 2 sirens where we live at.

[bvigal]

If you are near a siren, you can hear it from indoors. My home town gave up on them as a city-wide project, because after they were installed, people couldn't hear them more than a few blocks away. The total number they would need for everyone to hear them made it "cost-prohibitive." 300 is the quantity that comes to mind (though the mind isn't what it used to be!). And keeping that many wired together and working, with tree trimming, broken power lines, etc., was apparently very difficult. They work well in small towns which don't have a lot of traffic & construction noise.

Back in the 60's, when everyone was worried about atomic bomb threat, the US still had a good network of civil defense sirens leftover from WWII, and certified bomb shelters in public buildings. Those are pretty much long gone. With the rapid improvement and wide availability of local radio and tv, and the NWS watch/warning system, notification methods changed.

Dopplar radar, increasingly excellent sysem of spotters, which include law enforcement routinely trained, cable tv with weather scrolling, and 'break-in' emergency notification by EM's to all broadcast media, all give the public much more information and time to be aware of threatening weather.

The way it works, if you are in a tornado watch area, or a severe thunderstorm warning area, you should be ready at ANY TIME, to take immediate cover. If this means going to bed in the basement or bathroom, if you don't have a weather radio, so be it.

The only problem with warning methods: wx radio, siren, broadcast, etc., no matter how well they work ... a tornado has to form and drop out of the cloud SOMEWHERE... if it's right over your head, no kind of warning system is going to give you enough time!

[tidesong]

Most people here in southern Wisconsin have basements, and sirens are everywhere. Can't really hear them indoors, but that's not what they're intended for anyway.

I'm always hesitant to go to bed with a weather radio, because I don't want that freaky warning signal waking me up and freaking me out for a Severe Thunderstorm Warning that's producing hail 20 miles away.

[CrazyC83]

If there is a risk of tornadoes, I'd take the weather radio to bed with you though...

[snoopj]

I live in the greater KC area. We have a basement. We also have a tornado siren less than a block from our house.

Kristi

I live in KC as well. In an apartment complex. We do have an interior area in our apartments to go to, along with a storage facility on the bottom floor. As far as sirens, I have 5 of them in hearing range of my apartment. I'm also extremely close to the Platte/Clay county line. If Platte county gets a Tornado Warning, I hear their sirens as well. During the 5/4/03 storms, my apartment complex was just covered in siren wails.

--snoopj

[senorpepr]

I'm always hesitant to go to bed with a weather radio, because I don't want that freaky warning signal waking me up and freaking me out for a Severe Thunderstorm Warning that's producing hail 20 miles away.

Here's an idea... all SAME weather radios have technology where you can single out certain counties for the radio to alert to. That way, you are only alerted when your county is under the gun. Also, most have the ability to set what warnings are sounded. That way, if you want, you can set your radio to only go off for tornado warnings in your county.

[conestogo_flood]

Hmm, on the topic of warning methods...

Here in southern Ontario, two news station I know of have a TV crawl, The Weather Network has a crawl, and sometimes the radio DJs announce the warnings.

Other than that, we have weather radios with SAME, but you can't buy weather radios in Canada.

Little to no tornado sirens.

Proposed EAS system for the TV, but the CRTC(Canadian Radio and Television Corporation) keeps rejecting the idea. Has been for years.

[greeng13]

i'm not sure but could it be that the tornadoes in FL generally don't stay on the ground that long and that might be why there are no sirens? basically by the time the siren sounds the tornado is gone???

if someone would comment on that i would appreciate it! that is just how i see it.

ditto on the water table/basement replies. a lot of areas in the midwest, near the Mississippi for instance are even prone to flooding so you would evacuate to a pool.

with that much moisture (let alone foundation problems) you would also be risking more termite damage in areas such as where i live. they are already bad down here!!! don't need to "invite" them