I don't know what to make of this

[Weatherfreak000]

Winds were a significant part of why the levees broke and Cat 1 winds didn't break it. The winds that broke that levee where ranging from 130 to 145 easily.

The winds broke the levees?!?! Wow that's news to me

I said "significant" mind you. The flooding brought alot of pressure on the levees and the extra applied wind caused the shelf protection to retrograde causing the levee to collapse.

[Opal storm]

The surge in the New Orleans area, while certainly above a Cat 1 level, was certainly nowhere near the Cat 4/5 levels. I have read several articles pointing to increasing evidence that at least some of the levees were never overtopped. This is very important because it seems a lot of people are under the impression from the media that New Orleans went through a Cat 4 hurricane, and thus a Cat 4 surge, which is simply not true (example: "Levees to be rebuilt" topic in the Aftermath board). For example, if you asked a handful of people from the street, I'm willing to bet they'll point out that New Orleans was hit by a Cat 4 instead of pointing out what kind of conditions and surge they really experienced.

That's just ridiculous. New Orleans was hit by the Western Eyewall and experienced 130 sustained this was allready proven.


In fact, this study is completely bogus. Winds were a significant part of why the levees broke and Cat 1 winds didn't break it. The winds that broke that levee where ranging from 130 to 145 easily.

There was no wind damage in N.O that suggests 130-145mph winds.

[Brent]

There was no wind damage in N.O that suggests 130-145mph winds.

Yeah... I didn't even see Marginal 3 damage in New Orleans(see Gulf Shores after Ivan for that). As was said, New Orleans was NOT in the Western eyewall(I watched the eye on radar, I know), and did not see anywhere close to the strongest winds.

[jazzfan1247]

I said "significant" mind you. The flooding brought alot of pressure on the levees and the extra applied wind caused the shelf protection to retrograde causing the levee to collapse.

The only significant impact the winds would've had was to push a large volume of water (surge) onto the levee, which...if the winds were truly ranging from 130-145 mph sustained, it would've overtopped the levees...causing the winds to have NO impact from a "causing shelf protection to retrograde" standpoint.

[f5]

they way this guy make it sound a CAT 1 has a 35 ft storm surge

according to this writer

CAT 1-35 ft surge
CAT 2-70ft
CAT 3-105ft
CAT 4-140ft
CAT 5-175 Ft

[Derek Ortt]

New Orleans did not have anywhere near 130 m.p.h. sustained. Just ebcause a hot wire anamometer records 130 m.p.h. sustained, when it is known to be prone to very large errors in heavy precip and high wind environments, does not mean 130 m.p.h. sustained was proven

[Derek Ortt]

Brent

NO, especially the eastern parts of the city, did get the western eye wall. The eye expanded as it was making landfall

[TS Zack]

Just was looking through some more wind data and found sustained 87mph in Covington, La. Before it failed.

[TS Zack]

Winds were a significant part of why the levees broke and Cat 1 winds didn't break it. The winds that broke that levee where ranging from 130 to 145 easily.

The winds broke the levees?!?! Wow that's news to me

Jazz is right. Winds didn't break the levees. Pressure breaks them.

Or.....

Wind could push a barge and that will easily break it.

Most of the time water pressure.

Did anyone post the new update as of Friday. They have a few more readings at different heights from NO International.

Also a mid-lake reading of sustained winds 90mph,,Gusts 114mph.

Belle Chasse had winds sustained 80mph, Gusts to 102mph.

Covington sustained wind of 87mph. They never got in the eyewall either.

All failing....

000
ACUS74 KLIX 072000
PSHLIX

POST-TROPICAL CYCLONE REPORT...HURRICANE KATRINA...UPDATED
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
300 PM CDT FRI OCT 7 2005

THIS REPORT COVERS THE PERIOD AUGUST 28-29 2005 WHEN HURRICANE
KATRINA MOVED THROUGH THE EASTERN GULF OF MEXICO BEFORE MAKING
LANDFALL NEAR NEW ORLEANS DURING THE MORNING OF AUGUST 29. THIS DATA
IS PRELIMINARY AND WILL BE UPDATED AS NEW INFORMATION BECOMES
AVAILABLE.

ASOS DATA IS INCOMPLETE DUE TO POWER INTERUPTION PRIOR TO PEAK WIND
AND MIN PRESSURE OCCURRENCE.

A. HIGHEST WINDS...

ASOS....2 MINUTE SUSTAINED WINDS

LOCATION DIR/SPEED KT TIME ON AUGUST 29 2005
UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED

PASCAGOULA PQL ....DATA INCOMPLETE DUE TO POWER OUTAGE
SUSTAINED 080/38 KT 0953 UTC
PEAK 090/44 KT 0933 UTC

BILOXI-KEESLER AFB
SUSTAINED 110/47 KT 1355 UTC
PEAK 110/78 KT 1355 UTC

GULFPORT GPT SUSTAINED 070/40 KT 1025 UTC
PEAK 090/55 KT 1008 UTC

SLIDELL KASD SUSTAINED 030/32 KT 1243 UTC
PEAK 030/44 KT 1243 UTC

BOOTHEVILLE KBVE SUSTAINED 040/26 KT 2137 UTC 08/28/05
PEAK 040/39 KT 2137 UTC 08/28/05

NEW ORLEANS ARMSTRONG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT KMSY
SUSTAINED 040/29 KT 0305 UTC
PEAK 050/38 KT 0255 UTC

NEW ORLEANS LAKEFRONT AIRPORT KNEW
SUSTAINED 040/60 KT 1153 UTC
PEAK 060/75 KT 1153 UTC

ARMSTRONG NEW ORELANS INTL AIRPORT LLWAS TOWERS...11 SITES
PEAK WIND FROM ALL SITES 328/85 KT (120 FT AGL) 1340UTC
PEAK WIND FROM INSTRUMENT AT 30 FT AGL
328/64 KT (30 FT AGL) 1405UTC

COASTAL OBSERVATIONS...NOAA NDBC BUOY...CMAN...DATA INCOMPLETE

LOCATION DIR/SPEED KT TIME ON AUGUST 29 2005
UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED

NOAA SW PASS CMAN...BURLI WIND EQUIPMENT HEIGHT 30.5 M / 100 FT
SUSTAINED 080/64 KT 0446 UTC
PEAK 080/88 KT 0446 UTC
NOAA GRAND ISLE CMAN...GDIL1...DATA INCOMPLETE
SUSTAINED 040/62 KT 0747 UTC
PEAK 030/99 KT 0838 UTC
NOAA BUOY 42007...DATA INCOMPLETE
SUSTAINED 260/60 KT 1535 UTC
PEAK 110/74 KT 1354 UTC
TERREBONNE BAY (TAML1)...DATA INCOMPLETE
SUSTAINED 340/55 KT 1000 UTC
LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN - NWS INSTRUMENTATION
MID LAKE SUSTAINED 320/78 KT 1500 UTC
PEAK 320/99 KT 1500 UTC

OTHER WIND OBSERVATIONS

LSU AG WEATHER OBSERVATIONS - PEAK ON AUGUST 29, 2005
BTR-BEN HUR PEAK 54 KT 1414 UTC
BTR-BURDEN PEAK 48 KT 1519 UTC
PT SULPHUR PEAK 88 KT 0937 UTC
PT SULPHUR SITE HEAVILY DAMAGED BY STORM SURGE/WIND
FRANKLINTON PEAK 69 KT 1800 UTC
HOUMA PEAK 60 KT 1314 UTC
HAMMOND PEAK 66 KT 1643 UTC
LIVINGSTON-N MISSING
MANCHAC MISSING
LIVINGSTON-S PEAK 49 KT 1431 UTC
LIVINGSTON-W PEAK 42 KT 1451 UTC
ST GABRIEL PEAK 53 KT 1519 UTC


EMERGENCY OPERATIONS CENTERS...PEAK GUST OBSERVED BEFORE WIND
EQUIPMENT WAS BLOWN DOWN.

PASCAGOULA -JACKSON COUNTY MS EOC -
PEAK 108 KT
POPLARVILLE - PEARL RIVER COUNTY MS EOC
PEAK 117 KT

EXPERIMENTAL WIND TOWER DATA
STENNIS SPACE CENTER, MS - TEXAS TECH UNIV 10M TOWER
PEAK WIND GUST 102 KT
SUSTAINED ONE MINUTE WIND 59 KT
SLIDELL AIRPORT, LA TEXAS TECH UNIV 10M TOWER
PEAK WIND GUST 87 KT
SUSTAINED ONE MINUTE WIND 61 KT
VACHERIE, LA TEXAS TECH UNIV 10M TOWER
PEAK WIND GUST 64 KT
SUSTAINED ONE MINTUE WIND 48 KT

FLORIDA INTL UNIV EXPERIMENTAL WIND TOWER DATA
BELLE CHASE NAS ONE MINUTE WIND 025/68KT 1427UTC
3 SEC PEAK WIND 022/89KT 1132UTC
GALLIANO LA ONE MINUTE WIND 010/67KT 0936UTC
3 SEC PEAK WIND 010/83KT 0935UTC
TRENT LOTT ARPT PQL ONE MIN WIND 019/64KT 1549UTC



B. LOWEST PRESSURE
PRES MB TIME UTC
ON AUGUST 29 2005 UNLESS NOTED
SLIDELL NWS........... 934.1 1438 UTC

GRETNA LA CO-OP 950.6 1400 UTC FROM MICROBAROGRAPH


LSU AG WEATHER OBSERVATION - MIN PRESSURE ON AUGUST 29 2005
BTR-BEN HUR 981.24 UNKNOWN
BTR-BURDEN 981.74 UNKNOWN
PT SULPHUR 962.16 1000 UTC INCOMPLETE LAST OB
FRANKLINTON 953.65 1615 UTC
HOUMA 976.59 1244 UTC
HAMMOND 965.25 1602 UTC
LIVINGSTON-N MISSING
MANCHAC MISSING
LIVINGSTON-S 974.46 1637 UTC
LIVINGSTON-W 972.84 1608 UTC
ST GABRIEL 979.48 1436 UTC


C. STORM TOTAL RAINFALL

08/29/2005 08/30/2005 48 HOUR
1200UTC 1200UTC TOTAL

RADAR ESTIMATES ACROSS SOUTH LOUISIANA AND SOUTH MISSISSIPPI
5-7 INCHES 7-9 INCHES 12-16 INCHES
SLIDELL NWS 11.63

D. STORM SURGE

SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA

STORM SURVEY BY LAKE CHARLES NWS
GRAND ISLE...........12.0 FT MLLW...VISUAL EST. HIGH WATER MARK
PORT FOURCHON........ 8.0 FT MLLW...VISUAL EST. HIGH WATER MARK

LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN
NOAA MID LAKE PONTCH. 6.8 FT NGVD 1500 UTC...LAST OB BEFORE
DATA INTERUPTTED

OTHER SITES
PONTE A LA HACHE (BGNL1) 14.14 FT...LAST OB BEFORE GAGE FAILED
LAKE MAUREPAS (MAUL1) 3.05 FT...LAST OB BEFORE GAGE FAILED

MISSISSIPPI COAST
PASCAGOULA (PSCM6) 12.16 FT...DATA INCOMPLETE
GREEN PASS (GRPL1) 11.27 FT...DATA INCOMPLETE
HANCOCK EOC 28.00 FT
(INFORMATION CORRECTED FROM PREVIOUS PSH)
(27 FT ABOVE MSL...HAD 1 FT OF WATER IN THE OPS AREA)
BILOXI RIVER AT WORTHAM..26.00 FT
PASCAGOULA EOC 16.10 FT...SURVEYED HIGH WATER MARK ON
OUTSIDE OF BUILDING

E. BEACH EROSION
MAJOR

F. FLOODING OR FLASH FLOODING...
MANY GAGES ALONG LOWER PORTIONS OF MISSISSIPPI COAST DRAINAGE RIVERS
EXCEEDED FLOOD STAGE...INITIALLY WHEN STORM SURGE MOVED UP RIVER
CHANNELS...AND LATER FROM FRESH WATER WHEN RAINFALL RUNOFF OCCURRED.

G. TORNADOES
UNKNOWN

H. STORM EFFECTS
KATRINA IS ONE OF THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE HURRICANES TO EVER HIT THE UNITED
STATES COAST. SEVERE DAMAGE WAS SEEN NEAR AND UP TO 76 MILES EAST OF
THE CENTER OF KATRINA. STORM SURGE VALUES APPROACH HURICANE CAMILLES
EXTREME VALUES...WITH HIGH STORM SURGE VALUES OVER A MUCH MORE EXTENSIVE
AREA THAN WITH HURRICANE CAMILLE. ALMOST TOTAL DESTRUCTION WAS OBSERVED
ALONG THE IMMEDIATE COAST IN HANCOCK AND HARRISON WITH STORM SURGE DAMAGE
EXTENDING NORTH ALONG BAYS AND BAYOUS TO NEAR INTERSTATE HIGHWAY 10.

IN SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA...ORLEANS...PLAQUEMINES...ST BERNARD WERE FLOODED
BY STORM SURGE OVERTOPPING AND/OR BREACHING OF LEVEES WITH WIDESPREAD
AND DEEP FLOODING OF HOMES AND BUSINESSES.

ALONG THE NORTH SHORE OF LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN...SEVERE STORM SURGE DAMAGE
WAS EXPERIENCED ALONG THE LAKESHORE FROM MANDEVILLE TO SLIDELL WITH
STORM SURGE WATER MOVING DEEP INTO OLD TOWNE SLIDELL...UP TO 6 FEET DEEP
IN SOME LOCATIONS.

IN AREAS AWAY FROM STORM SURGE FLOODING...WIND DAMAGE WAS REPORTED IN
A WIDE AREA ACROSS SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA AND SOUTH MISSISSIPPI. DAMAGE
FROM FALLEN TREES TOOK A HEAVY TOLL ON HOUSE ROOFS AND POWER LINES.

ON OCTOBER 3...THE DEATH TOLL STOOD AT 929 IN LOUISIANA AND 221 IN
MISSISSIPPI. THE FIGURES LIKELY INCLUDES DIRECT AND INDIRECT FATALITIES.

$$

[Wpwxguy]

Just come on up here to Washington Parish and tell the folks up here that the western side had cat 1 winds. I don't know why this stuff always comes up, but its ridiculous. We had sustained winds near 100 mph with gusts well over 100 , it does not matter what anyone says. Do I have an instrument reading to back this up? NO! But I have the damage to prove it. Are they idiots? Well, could be. I don't have the experise that Derek and others do, but I did ride out Katrina and saw her winds first hand. I am 50 miles north of N.O. So Zack is right about the 87 mph winds, I'm sure .

[Derek Ortt]

Damage is not the best idicator here. New Orleans had upper cat 1 winds or maybe lower cat 2. Lets remember what Claudette did to Texas as a strong cat 1. Entire structures were destroyed by the sustained 90 m.p.h. winds

[Aslkahuna]

Winds near 100 mph-how near? Remember that Cat 1 includes sustained winds NOT gusts up to 96mph. Using a 1.4 ratio for overland hurricane winds for a sustained wind of 96 mph I find a potential gust of 134 mph. Therefore your statement does not rule out high Cat 1 winds or low end Cat 2 winds if exactly 100 mph sustained.

Steve