Categories Can be Inadequate in Classifying Hurricanes

[Berwick Bay]

We like to keep things nice and neat. You know, this storm was a 4, this one "only" a 3. But hurricanes often do not lend themselves to such neat categorization. You've already discussed the storm surge vs. wind controversy. But it goes deeper than that. Each storm is sort of a beast of its own. (Thats why they have names). Oftentimes, two storms can have the same classification, yet the experience of the two storms can be totally different. (even if you passed through the worst of both). Some storms have more downdrafts and erratic bursts of wind, others have more precipitation, which when added to the wind, makes the force much more formidable. The classification scheme can sometimes fail badly. I prefer to think of storms as major or non-major, thats about it. The 3,4, and 5 types are often deceiving. I will try not to use them this year.

[vbhoutex]

You're pretty much right on the money with that post as we have seen with some of the discussions over the last 2 years about different Hurricanes our members have experienced and how different the experience was for each with the same categorization.

However, the public and for that matter the scientists do have to have some sort of benchmark to measure against. Wish I had time to go into it more rignt now, but am posting from work.

[HUC]

Agree absolutly!!!i have seen two cat 1,two cat 3 and one cat 4 hurricanes since 1956,and really,each hurricane is a single one.I'am affraid by all these storms.The actual classification is somewhat confused.F ex,Marylin (cat 1 in Guadeloupe)caused terrific disasters due to the rains. So you have to pay respect to the hurricanes(say that" as i've seen a cat 4,a cat 1 is nothing",thats a terrible mistake

[MSRobi911]

Comparing Hurricanes with the same Catagory Levels is like comparing Apples and Oranges, I agree with the comment above that each storm is totally different than another. Being in the same place during Hurricane Camille, a Cat 5 and Hurricane Katrina, a Cat 3 (yea tell me another one) with it hitting almost exactly in the same place I thought we really didn't have a whole lot to worry about. The most accurate statement made about Hurricane Camille so far has been attributed to a man in Biloxi/Gulfport that said, and this is not a direct quote, but he said....Hurricane Camille killed more people today (August 29, 2005, Katrina) than she did in August of 1969.

I never dreamed in my wildest dreams that I would have nothing left but a slab when I went back home, but unfortunately being approximately 80 miles east of landfall in MS was not far enough away for Katrina to not do her damage so completely. When we were inside the Sheriffs Office watching the water come up the street from the gulf, we couldn't figure out what was going on, we were 2 miles from the water but as we stood there and watched it coming, it just continued to get higher and higher until we all evacuated to the 1st floor and watched 5 feet of water come in the ground floor of the court house and being able to see another foot outside that just hadn't come in the door yet. Then seeing fish swimming around was absolutely the funniest thing I have ever seen. As we watched the water go down hours later we saw mullet and blue gills going out the door along with the water, salt water and fresh water fish both since the Pascagoula River is to the West of the Courthouse when the water came in it pushed it toward the courthouse too, so we had a mixed group of fishes swimming around all through the courthouse. Thank goodness we didn't get any snakes or alligators!

Mary

[AJC3]

The most accurate statement made about Hurricane Camille so far has been attributed to a man in Biloxi/Gulfport that said, and this is not a direct quote, but he said....Hurricane Camille killed more people today (August 29, 2005, Katrina) than she did in August of 1969.
Mary

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that quote can be attributed to Max Mayfield.

[MSRobi911]

Without storm size information
in the SS classification, some people may have perceived
the risk of Katrina to be the same or even
lower than Camille. In Katrina’s aftermath many
people in coastal Mississippi have repeated a quote
attributed to Mr. Jim Holt of Biloxi on 30 August
2006: “It looks like Hurricane Camille killed more
people yesterday than it did in 1969” (A. Lee, Biloxi
Sun Herald, 2006, personal communication). Better
risk perception is an important goal for any new
metric of hurricane destructive potential.

This is from http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520- ... -4-513.pdf

article that Derek posted in earlier thread about Katrina v Camille.

I remember reading this and seeing the interview of the man on WLOX TV News after Katrina hit...well after we got power back.

Mary

[wobblehead]

I have not read Derek's article so I don't know if he stated this. Katrina, just before landfall, was going through eye wall replacement phase which is proven in microwave image. The second eye wall pushed energy out basically expanding the perimeter of hurricane force winds. This is why Pascagoula some 100 miles from the center experienced hurricane force winds. Some areas of the Mississippi coast were hit by two eye walls not one.

[DanKellFla]

I have tried to explain how catagories can be inadequate to describe a storm to many people. Some storms are slow moving, of linger for hours over a location. Some have small windfields. Some blast through with a high forward speed. There are so many variables that make one magic number to describe a storm almost pointless. But, a number gives something for the government to react to, so I guess it is a useful idea.

[Downdraft]

I agree no two storms are the same. A tropical system is a tropical system. "Only a tropical storm" is heard a lot in here but Houston remembers all to well that Allison was only a tropical storm. I'm more worried in Florida about any tropical system parking itself over the state and raining till Noah needs to build another boat. Anyone that has gone through any tropical system will tell you these are angry storms filled with hate if you want to personalize them. They inspire awe but they deserve respect with fear. A wind that howls forever, rain coming from all directions and the look of helplessness on the face of your loved ones while you wait for Mother Nature to stop running wild.

[MSRobi911]

Amen Downdraft!!!!!!! Your last sentence is the perfect description of going through a "Tropical System" of any Catagory. Shoot sometimes the gulf breeze thunder bumpers we get here on the coast in the hot afternoons are worse than any TS I have sat through, they can get really rough really fast and there is no warning till they start popping!

Mary