Impact to Pensacola? How Accurate are Reports?

[ColdWaterConch]

I have not seen any "reports" or confirmation of any "reports". All I see is hearsay upon hearsay....stories thrice removed.

I have not seen one report, from an eyewitness, saying that they saw bodies washing up.

Can anyone even point to a source regarding the number of missing people?

[jpigott]

look, for the record StrongWind and ColdWaterConch, I agree with you guys 95%, there are no massive death toll cover-ups, most of the stuff is just rumor. I get all worked up about Andrew b/c one of my best friends was there and he tells me what he heard about numerous bodies being pulled out of the water. Normally I would write something like that off, but there are 2 things that still bother me 1) South Dade was practically under martial law for some time with plenty of "restricted areas" 2) the large numbers of undocumented aliens/migrant workers in the area. As far as Charley goes the only problem I have is the Fox report with the hospital official of 150-200 DOAs that to my knowleged has not been retracted or even mentioned, even the article you posted ColdWaterConch did not touch it. StrongWind this was not a WTC initial death toll estimate, DOA means dead on arrival. So if i'm to take what the hospital official said literally that means 150-200 dead bodies at the hospital, no guessing involved. Look, I admit the Andrew scenario reeks of conspiracy, but i would like to see something refuting the Charley Fox report before i write it off.

[ColdWaterConch]

look, for the record StrongWind and ColdWaterConch, I agree with you guys 95%, there are no massive death toll cover-ups, most of the stuff is just rumor. I get all worked up about Andrew b/c one of my best friends was there and he tells me what he heard about numerous bodies being pulled out of the water. Normally I would write something like that off, but there are 2 things that still bother me 1) South Dade was practically under martial law for some time with plenty of "restricted areas" 2) the large numbers of undocumented aliens/migrant workers in the area. As far as Charley goes the only problem I have is the Fox report with the hospital official of 150-200 DOAs that to my knowleged has not been retracted or even mentioned, even the article you posted ColdWaterConch did not touch it. StrongWind this was not a WTC initial death toll estimate, DOA means dead on arrival. So if i'm to take what the hospital official said literally that means 150-200 dead bodies at the hospital, no guessing involved. Look, I admit the Andrew scenario reeks of conspiracy, but i would like to see something refuting the Charley Fox report before i write it off.

"Katrina Klaproth echoes those sentiments. But then, she might be considered an administrator. She is vice president of marketing for the hospital.

Hundreds of people did in fact come through the hospital's emergency room after the storm, she said. Injured. Less than a handful of people died at the hospital in the days after the storm, most of causes completely unrelated to the hurricane. The reports of hundreds of bodies at the hospital are just untrue, she said."

That is not good enough?

As for Andrew...think...who would be pulling the bodies out of the water....and why wouldn't they be selling their story for millions of dollars?

[jpigott]

ColdWaveFront - i suppose that's enough, guess I didn't catch that. Though still miffed as to why a "professional" who should know what "DOA" stands for, to announce what she did on national television, crisis or no crisis. As far as Andrew goes, the monetary incentive is what really debunks any conspiracy theory. But if you think that FEMA/National Guard can't make a few hundred (i don't buy the thousands #) undocumented migrant worker bodies disappear given the circumstances (curfews, restricted areas) then our gov't really is incompetent

[mascpa]

Y'all been reading too much George Orwell.

[HurricaneBill]

I don't believe the whole migrant workers/illegal aliens cover up in Andrew. It doesn't matter if they were undocumented or not. Somebody WOULD have noticed.

Ivan's death toll will probably get reduced to exclude indirect fatalities.

Charley's went from 32 to 15.

Isabel's went from over 40 to 16.


But you want proof that a large cover-up would not occur with a massive death toll?

Hurricane Audrey 1957

Around 578 died, including 518 in Cameron Parish. Audrey was the deadliest hurricane to hit the U.S. during the latter half of the 20th century.

There were no reported cover-ups. In fact, they did a very thorough search of the swamps to make sure they found as many as they could.

The reason for the high death toll is stated as failure to evacuate. Many thought they had more time and were pretty much waiting till later to evacuate. But Audrey intensified and speeded up and struck overnight.

[jpigott]

Andrew cover-up not likely, but is plausible. Hurricane Bill - you live in Mass., I live in FL., when I was a kid I used to do missions work for migrants through my church out in Indiantown, FL (agricultural area)believe me nobody would notice a few hundred migrants missing. They do not have regular jobs, nor "employers" as you or I would define the term. The migrants gather early in the morning in the hopes they will be picked up to work at farm X,Y, or Z. Some get work that day some don't. Often they end up working for different "employers" at different sites. The employers have no record of them, the state has no record. The only people that would notice them missing are family and friends, who happen to be illegally in this country. All these people want to do is make a couple of bucks and feed their families (which sadly is easier for them to do illegally in the US than to do so legally in their native land) and they would unlikely create a fuss if the media did not report the deaths of their family/friends

[Downdraft]

Still folks there isn't one shred of credible evidence to support a cover-up? The media especially in an election year where the Governor is the President's brother would be on it like flies to dung. You have to ask yourself in whose interest would a cover-up be? Come on, you think Ivan will hurt real estates values in a couple of years? Developers are going to develop and people are going to buy. If 40 people died in a MOBILE home park then 40 people weren't where they were supposed to be. The police aren't storm troopers they aren't going to enter your house and drag you out. Even here if someone stayed inside their home in a mandatory evacuation area there wasn't anything anyone could do. You just don't bust down doors and drag people out. So let's 40 died why cover it up? What sense would it make? They died cause they were stupid not because anyone in the government did something wrong or wanted to hide the fact a massive hurricane hit the coast. It's all rumor and speculation. It doesn't matter a hoot in hell if they are filthy rich or migrant workers it's not in anyone's interest to cover up the body count.

[baygirl_1]

I found this on WEAR TV 3's website (link is: http://www.wear3.com/ then click on Ivan Deaths)---
"Ivan Deaths

The Ivan related death toll stands at 8 in Escambia County.
5 people were located, safe and sound on Perdido Key on Sunday. The county is actively looking for seven more missing persons.
The Escambia County Dive Team is also searching the waters near the I-10 bridge for more people who could have been on the bridge at the time of the collapse.
Grande Lagoon Subdivision, where some of the deaths occured, is back open to residents.
Pensacola Beach remains closed.
Officials say too much dangerous debris is still scattered about."

[Ziplock48]

There were hunderedsw of undocumented aliens housed in trailers at ground zero during huricane Andrew. Repeat: trailers--mobile homes.

these poor souls were illegals working for the farming community in Homestead. Why in the world would agriculture friendly local government ant to document their deaths? Any illegal alien found employed by US company could mean a fine od $10,000.00 per violation for any I-9 form (proof of citizemship or green card) not on file.

There was every reason to suppress this sad loss of life. As alsways, it seems to have everything to do with money. At the very least, those in charge of enforcment of I-9 registration would have been found wanting in their lax enforcment of the law.

I know because I was a farmer in Homstead for over fifteen years.

This is not a conspiracy theory, but business as usual. If you saw the camps where many of the workers lived, you'd wonder how any of them were able to survive. I saw trucks with refridgeration units. What were they doing...delivering ice to areas where the few remmaINING PEOPLE WERE BEING HELD BEHIND FENCES AT GUNPOINT? Yep, I saw that too. The labor camps were fenced, and national guard troops kept survivors inside. The american way.
Those trucks were not delivering ice, that much i'm sure of. if you were prioritizing ice delivery, who would you serve first...affluent, or politically active voters, or illegal aliens who cannot vote? It is a no brainer.

Reporters are not even on the ground in the barrier islands, yet, are they
? and even if they were, what are the chances of finding the dead? Some will never be found. I am deeply sorry. Especially for the families of those who are missing.

Sorry, I do not trust our government to tell us the whole truth...they treat us like children. And if this post belongs on the political forum, i'll gladly copy it over there.
Zip

[MBismyPlayground]

Zip, I totally believe you. Used to live in Homestead as well. I recall all of the migrant workers and the hovels they lived in. I was there when they brought all the Hatians in and then kept then on (I think been a long time) Chrome Ave behind fences. Very good friends of mine who owned a packaging plant told me about the things you have mentioned. They had actually tried to inform the authorities about missing people and were pretty much ignored. (All were migrant workers)

[NFLnut]

Like this picture below. Wind did not do that. Click the link and view the first picture. Also, notice the Holiday Inn in the picture. It is leaning to the North. http://www.al.com/galleries/ivan/

Actually, that 'lean to the north' of the HI is an optical illusion caused by the wide-angle lens that was used. If you look at the other picture of it, you'll see that the tower is fully upright.