2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1681 Postby Cachondo23 » Sat Aug 03, 2024 12:06 pm

869MB wrote:What really stands out to me so far in this 2024 season is the fact that all three, and now a high probable four, storms have entered the Gulf of Mexico without any systems either crossing over Central America, developing along the East Coast, or recurving out in the Atlantic Ocean. It will be very interesting to see just how long this overall trend continues as the hurricane season progresses.

Yeah I was thinking of that and soon to be Debby could be the 4th straight landfall of a named storm this season. When was the last time that the first named storms when straight to at least one landfall? Very interesting tendency so far this season. Let’s see what happens later on.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1682 Postby SFLcane » Sat Aug 03, 2024 2:30 pm

:crazyeyes:

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1683 Postby AnnularCane » Sat Aug 03, 2024 2:53 pm

Party time in the Atlantic! :12:
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1684 Postby Hammy » Sat Aug 03, 2024 4:00 pm

Cachondo23 wrote:
869MB wrote:What really stands out to me so far in this 2024 season is the fact that all three, and now a high probable four, storms have entered the Gulf of Mexico without any systems either crossing over Central America, developing along the East Coast, or recurving out in the Atlantic Ocean. It will be very interesting to see just how long this overall trend continues as the hurricane season progresses.

Yeah I was thinking of that and soon to be Debby could be the 4th straight landfall of a named storm this season. When was the last time that the first named storms when straight to at least one landfall? Very interesting tendency so far this season. Let’s see what happens later on.


2005's the last time that's without question (First FIVE even) and 1996 before that

There were two years that followed that might count:
2008 had Cristobal brush the Carolinas (may or may not have counted as a landfall) and Bermuda was inside of Bertha's large eye for a day, but everything else through Ike had landfalls
2016 had Alex which went through the Azores, but not sure if there was a landfall, the following four had landfalls

What's interesting is we've had two systems that are debatable, the two June invests, and if they were classified they would be additional consecutive landfalls
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1685 Postby toad strangler » Sat Aug 03, 2024 4:36 pm

I believe it was the latest CU outlook that cited “multiple US landfalls”

Pretty damn gnarly to watch unfold and it only being August 3.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1686 Postby Hammy » Sun Aug 04, 2024 2:39 am

I'm starting to wonder if we're going to come in below the named storm forecasts and see a largely dead central and eastern MDR and Subtropics as far as formation goes, but the flip side of having most of the activity clustered west of 60 and in the Caribbean and Gulf, similarly (but more active than) 1985, since the models are starting to pick up some storms in the medium range, and all western-based
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1687 Postby Category5Kaiju » Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:12 am

Hammy wrote:I'm starting to wonder if we're going to come in below the named storm forecasts and see a largely dead central and eastern MDR and Subtropics as far as formation goes, but the flip side of having most of the activity clustered west of 60 and in the Caribbean and Gulf, similarly (but more active than) 1985, since the models are starting to pick up some storms in the medium range, and all western-based


I mean I guess it's possible, but as we all know these models can see so accurately into the future up to a certain point; it's also possible that we get a bona fide Cape Verde storm like Ivan, Irma, or Florence that is born adjacent to the Cape Verde Islands and continues westward in late August-September. I don't see anything that would scream to me at this point that this isn't a possibility for this season.

Additionally, while I was under the impression that we could end up with slightly less than the 20some NSs that appeared in the seasonal predictions, I think much of that relies on the idea that seasons like 2004 and 2017 happened. However, both of those years wound down after September-early October, so it remains to be seen in 2024 follows suit or if it produces activity into November as other first year La Nina seasons typically do.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1688 Postby Teban54 » Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:09 am

Category5Kaiju wrote:
Hammy wrote:I'm starting to wonder if we're going to come in below the named storm forecasts and see a largely dead central and eastern MDR and Subtropics as far as formation goes, but the flip side of having most of the activity clustered west of 60 and in the Caribbean and Gulf, similarly (but more active than) 1985, since the models are starting to pick up some storms in the medium range, and all western-based


I mean I guess it's possible, but as we all know these models can see so accurately into the future up to a certain point; it's also possible that we get a bona fide Cape Verde storm like Ivan, Irma, or Florence that is born adjacent to the Cape Verde Islands and continues westward in late August-September. I don't see anything that would scream to me at this point that this isn't a possibility for this season.

Additionally, while I was under the impression that we could end up with slightly less than the 20some NSs that appeared in the seasonal predictions, I think much of that relies on the idea that seasons like 2004 and 2017 happened. However, both of those years wound down after September-early October, so it remains to be seen in 2024 follows suit or if it produces activity into November as other first year La Nina seasons typically do.

FWIW, in late August 2017 just before Irma, people were questioning whether the season would be a subtropics-heavy one (because of Gert), a west-based one with little activity in the east-central MDR (because of Harvey), or a quantity-over-quality one (because the season set a record for the lowest ACE from the first 5 storms).

The answer? No, no, no.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1689 Postby CyclonicFury » Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:39 pm

Teban54 wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:
Hammy wrote:I'm starting to wonder if we're going to come in below the named storm forecasts and see a largely dead central and eastern MDR and Subtropics as far as formation goes, but the flip side of having most of the activity clustered west of 60 and in the Caribbean and Gulf, similarly (but more active than) 1985, since the models are starting to pick up some storms in the medium range, and all western-based


I mean I guess it's possible, but as we all know these models can see so accurately into the future up to a certain point; it's also possible that we get a bona fide Cape Verde storm like Ivan, Irma, or Florence that is born adjacent to the Cape Verde Islands and continues westward in late August-September. I don't see anything that would scream to me at this point that this isn't a possibility for this season.

Additionally, while I was under the impression that we could end up with slightly less than the 20some NSs that appeared in the seasonal predictions, I think much of that relies on the idea that seasons like 2004 and 2017 happened. However, both of those years wound down after September-early October, so it remains to be seen in 2024 follows suit or if it produces activity into November as other first year La Nina seasons typically do.

FWIW, in late August 2017 just before Irma, people were questioning whether the season would be a subtropics-heavy one (because of Gert), a west-based one with little activity in the east-central MDR (because of Harvey), or a quantity-over-quality one (because the season set a record for the lowest ACE from the first 5 storms).

The answer? No, no, no.

It's fairly typical for the western basin to become active first due to MJO progression. We often don't see the Cape Verde hurricanes until the end of the favorable period when the MJO is in phase 3/4.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1690 Postby Hammy » Sun Aug 04, 2024 3:31 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
Hammy wrote:I'm starting to wonder if we're going to come in below the named storm forecasts and see a largely dead central and eastern MDR and Subtropics as far as formation goes, but the flip side of having most of the activity clustered west of 60 and in the Caribbean and Gulf, similarly (but more active than) 1985, since the models are starting to pick up some storms in the medium range, and all western-based


I mean I guess it's possible, but as we all know these models can see so accurately into the future up to a certain point; it's also possible that we get a bona fide Cape Verde storm like Ivan, Irma, or Florence that is born adjacent to the Cape Verde Islands and continues westward in late August-September. I don't see anything that would scream to me at this point that this isn't a possibility for this season.

Additionally, while I was under the impression that we could end up with slightly less than the 20some NSs that appeared in the seasonal predictions, I think much of that relies on the idea that seasons like 2004 and 2017 happened. However, both of those years wound down after September-early October, so it remains to be seen in 2024 follows suit or if it produces activity into November as other first year La Nina seasons typically do.


1985 had Gloria so I highly doubt we're going to see a total void, but most of the MDR activity will likely be west of about 45-50, from looking at the long range models, and the fact that the waves are continuing to come off as far north as they are. The subtropics also don't seem favorable for genesis this year, and if we end up with a lack of activity east of about 70 and north of 20-25, that in itself will also take a bite out of the overall NS count.

Something like 1985 or 2005 feels like the most likely outcome for this season, somewhere between there.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1691 Postby aspen » Sun Aug 04, 2024 4:55 pm

I do think there’s a chance of falling a little short of the forecast NS totals…but since some go as high as 25, that’s still a lot of total systems. Good chance we still hit or exceed 20 NS.

The formations of our first four storms in the deep tropics, all from tropical waves, seems to suggest most TCG this season will be south of 20N. Less subtropical slop and more, higher-potential deep tropics systems. A more quality-over-quantity season with a higher NS:H ratio than 2021 and 2023, probably something closer to 2017 (although whether it gets as insane remains to be seen).

And even if most or all MDR TCG is restricted to west of 45-50W, we’ll still likely get a few more substantial ACE generators. I’ll be very surprised if, after Beryl, we don’t see at least one 40+ ACE system. SSTs around 20-30N and 50-70W are plenty warm to support a recurving major like Sam.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1692 Postby weeniepatrol » Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:43 pm

By the way, Atlantic ACE STILL exceeds EPAC + WPAC combined
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1693 Postby toad strangler » Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:45 pm

weeniepatrol wrote:By the way, Atlantic ACE STILL exceeds EPAC + WPAC combined


This is absolutely mind blowing. Something is going on we’ve never seen before.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1694 Postby rockice » Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:13 pm

Is the way I see things this year Louisiana Mississippi and Alabama won't get hit this year because of the heat ridge is locked in place could be wrong or I could be right
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1695 Postby IcyTundra » Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:41 pm

rockice wrote:Is the way I see things this year Louisiana Mississippi and Alabama won't get hit this year because of the heat ridge is locked in place could be wrong or I could be right


I don't think that is how it works but it would be nice if those states aren't impacted this year.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1696 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:53 am

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1697 Postby toad strangler » Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:08 am

weeniepatrol wrote:By the way, Atlantic ACE STILL exceeds EPAC + WPAC combined


What really opens my eyes is that when you see such a BUSY EPAC the Atlantic should be dead. For the most part. To see this is worrisome.

Image
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1698 Postby REDHurricane » Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:58 am

toad strangler wrote:
weeniepatrol wrote:By the way, Atlantic ACE STILL exceeds EPAC + WPAC combined


What really opens my eyes is that when you see such a BUSY EPAC the Atlantic should be dead. For the most part. To see this is worrisome.

https://i.ibb.co/DVb6NrK/Image-003.jpg


Just wait until MJO favorability moves on over from the EPac to the Atlantic, plus possibly a CCKW on top of that. I have a bad feeling that Debby is/was only a warning shot for what's about to go down over the next few months.

Image
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1699 Postby zzzh » Mon Aug 05, 2024 1:01 pm

EC seasonal predicts 1.5x climo ace for SONDJF
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1700 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 05, 2024 1:04 pm

zzzh wrote:EC seasonal predicts 1.5x climo ace for SONDJF


You may have to explain a little more and if there are graphics better, as many members may not understand that.
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