2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1801 Postby tolakram » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:06 pm

Is the conclusion obvious? SST's are a fairly small part of predicting seasonal activity? As long as SST's are warm enough to support tropical cyclones then upper air patterns are probably the most critical ingredient. This holds unless SST's are well below normal, in my opinion. Well above normal SST's might aid in quick spinups of storms, but other factors will be more important to determine the strength and lifespan. Combine above normal SST's and very favorable upper air patterns and maybe you get an above normal season, but I don't think anyone here, nor any expert, can claim to understand what it takes to cross the man made threshold of hyperactive.

For all of this, we're setting the odds. Higher SST's increase the odds by some unknown percentage. More waves increase the odds. Certain patterns may or may not increase the odds, etc. Unfortunately, even though it seems like we have a lot of data, we really don't. If we did the forecasts that use hindcasting to try and predict future results would be very accurate. They aren't. We still have seasons that surprise us and add to the data.

So where this ends up, unfortunately, is a lot of amateurs make predictions. Some of those will come true, but not because their predictions were correct. That's the key point to understand in all of this, and why repeated verification is SO important. My opinion, of course.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1802 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:10 pm

CyclonicFury wrote:For some reason, despite a La Niña and warmer than normal MDR SSTs, the CFSv2 is predicting above-normal wind shear over the MDR and Caribbean for ASO.

https://i.imgur.com/OlitqQP_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium


Is that configuration even possible? That literally defies the reason why a La Nina is naturally a plus for above average Atlantic activity.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1803 Postby CyclonicFury » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:13 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
CyclonicFury wrote:For some reason, despite a La Niña and warmer than normal MDR SSTs, the CFSv2 is predicting above-normal wind shear over the MDR and Caribbean for ASO.

https://i.imgur.com/OlitqQP_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium


Is that configuration even possible? That literally defies the reason why a La Nina is naturally a plus for above average Atlantic activity.

Apparently it showed something similar last year around this time, which verified poorly. It could be some sort of model bias related to MJO progression.
Image
Image
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1804 Postby AlphaToOmega » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:13 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
CyclonicFury wrote:For some reason, despite a La Niña and warmer than normal MDR SSTs, the CFSv2 is predicting above-normal wind shear over the MDR and Caribbean for ASO.

https://i.imgur.com/OlitqQP_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium


Is that configuration even possible? That literally defies the reason why a La Nina is naturally a plus for above average Atlantic activity.


Below-average shear in the EPAC despite La Nina

This is why I do not use CFSv2 for long-term climate forecasts
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1805 Postby AutoPenalti » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:16 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
CyclonicFury wrote:For some reason, despite a La Niña and warmer than normal MDR SSTs, the CFSv2 is predicting above-normal wind shear over the MDR and Caribbean for ASO.

https://i.imgur.com/OlitqQP_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium


Is that configuration even possible? That literally defies the reason why a La Nina is naturally a plus for above average Atlantic activity.

It was discussed some pages back that the TUTT associated with a stronger EASJ and Rossby Wave may increase shear in the MDR.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1806 Postby aspen » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:23 pm

CyclonicFury wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:
CyclonicFury wrote:For some reason, despite a La Niña and warmer than normal MDR SSTs, the CFSv2 is predicting above-normal wind shear over the MDR and Caribbean for ASO.

https://i.imgur.com/OlitqQP_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium


Is that configuration even possible? That literally defies the reason why a La Nina is naturally a plus for above average Atlantic activity.

Apparently it showed something similar last year around this time, which verified poorly. It could be some sort of model bias related to MJO progression.
https://i.imgur.com/LCsocok_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
https://i.imgur.com/5yh0Zbi_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

There was that time frame in the first half of September where shear was high due to that TUTT pumped by Maysak and Haishen in the WPac, so it only partially verified. However, shear wasn’t there when Teddy blew up into a Cat 4, and the later MDR storms struggled due to coming off of Africa too far north.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1807 Postby MarioProtVI » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:23 pm

SFLcane wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:CFSv2, just like the CanSIPS and JMA, finally suggests a favorable pattern for August:
https://i.postimg.cc/P5mPZCZ0/cfs-mon-01-chi200-global-1.png


But!? :roll:

https://i.postimg.cc/9MWx19Pq/FBF62068-5145-42-E3-9-FB5-4-CE66083234-B.jpg

CFS has a known bias to create pseudo El Niño conditions regardless of ENSO. Last year it predicted same thing and didn’t verify. So not buying CFS
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1808 Postby AlphaToOmega » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:25 pm

I made a spreadsheet of hurricane season activity and certain patterns (1980-2020):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IiT2RLzZsymZ4Rc1WQEIvhul92egsnjFciaBGxkdSbU/edit?usp=sharing
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1809 Postby aspen » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:25 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:CFSv2, just like the CanSIPS and JMA, finally suggests a favorable pattern for August:
https://i.postimg.cc/P5mPZCZ0/cfs-mon-01-chi200-global-1.png


Looks like the WPAC is going to have some trouble generating some powerful typhoons should that verify. Lots of sinking motion over the basin

That could prevent storms like Maysak and Haishen, which recurve at high latitudes and help create a strong TUTT that shreds MDR systems like last year. If it wasn’t for that, 2020 likely would have had a more impressive MDR than just Teddy and a few tropical storms that either fizzled out or peaked in the subtropics.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1810 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:29 pm

aspen wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:CFSv2, just like the CanSIPS and JMA, finally suggests a favorable pattern for August:
https://i.postimg.cc/P5mPZCZ0/cfs-mon-01-chi200-global-1.png


Looks like the WPAC is going to have some trouble generating some powerful typhoons should that verify. Lots of sinking motion over the basin

That could prevent storms like Maysak and Haishen, which recurve at high latitudes and help create a strong TUTT that shreds MDR systems like last year. If it wasn’t for that, 2020 likely would have had a more impressive MDR than just Teddy and a few tropical storms that either fizzled out or peaked in the subtropics.


While I only learned it last year, I never knew that even during a La Nina year the WPAC's storm tracks could actually impact the conditions in the Atlantic. Pretty cool imho to say the least.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1811 Postby SFLcane » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:31 pm

AlphaToOmega wrote:I made a spreadsheet of hurricane season activity and certain patterns (1980-2020):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IiT2RLzZsymZ4Rc1WQEIvhul92egsnjFciaBGxkdSbU/edit?usp=sharing


Where does this year fall?
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1812 Postby AlphaToOmega » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:32 pm

SFLcane wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:I made a spreadsheet of hurricane season activity and certain patterns (1980-2020):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IiT2RLzZsymZ4Rc1WQEIvhul92egsnjFciaBGxkdSbU/edit?usp=sharing


Where does this year fall?


Based on CanSIPS, 2021 is expected to have +AMO, +TNA, -ENSO, -PDO, -VP over Africa, and +VP over EPac, just like 2020 and 2010 (all of this is for ASO).
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1813 Postby SFLcane » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:51 pm

AlphaToOmega wrote:
SFLcane wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:I made a spreadsheet of hurricane season activity and certain patterns (1980-2020):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IiT2RLzZsymZ4Rc1WQEIvhul92egsnjFciaBGxkdSbU/edit?usp=sharing


Where does this year fall?


Based on CanSIPS, 2021 is expected to have +AMO, +TNA, -ENSO, -PDO, -VP over Africa, and +VP over EPac, just like 2020 and 2010 (all of this is for ASO).


+AMO? The +VP over the East Pacific is a stretch.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1814 Postby AlphaToOmega » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:15 pm

That is a hot MDR!
Image
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1815 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:16 pm

Also I would like to say this as I feel it is a very intriguing point, but when it comes down to having a "hyperactive season," having even at least only two or so storms but with each being an impressive long tracker can be enough to contribute roughly 100 or slightly more ACE to the hurricane season. For instance, I could have a season like 2020 (which produced 180 ACE) and a hypothetical season featuring only three NSs but with the three storms being the top ACE storms (Ivan, Irma, and Isabel), and this would amount to nearly 198 ACE.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1816 Postby aspen » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:26 pm

SFLcane wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:
SFLcane wrote:
Where does this year fall?


Based on CanSIPS, 2021 is expected to have +AMO, +TNA, -ENSO, -PDO, -VP over Africa, and +VP over EPac, just like 2020 and 2010 (all of this is for ASO).


+AMO? The +VP over the East Pacific is a stretch.

Well, it’s certainly not looking -AMO anymore, and most of the EPac has +VP anomalies except for one -VP cell off of the Mexican coast. If that cell dies off or never verifies, the EPac will be suppressed.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1817 Postby AlphaToOmega » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:41 pm

aspen wrote:
SFLcane wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:
Based on CanSIPS, 2021 is expected to have +AMO, +TNA, -ENSO, -PDO, -VP over Africa, and +VP over EPac, just like 2020 and 2010 (all of this is for ASO).


+AMO? The +VP over the East Pacific is a stretch.

Well, it’s certainly not looking -AMO anymore, and most of the EPac has +VP anomalies except for one -VP cell off of the Mexican coast. If that cell dies off or never verifies, the EPac will be suppressed.


Was it ever -AMO? The last time the AMO was negative was February 2019.

https://psl.noaa.gov/data/correlation/amon.us.long.data
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1818 Postby JPmia » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:42 pm

AlphaToOmega wrote:I made a spreadsheet of hurricane season activity and certain patterns (1980-2020):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IiT2RLzZsymZ4Rc1WQEIvhul92egsnjFciaBGxkdSbU/edit?usp=sharing


Great work… would be interesting to see that go back further in time.. but you can see a pattern with the colors .. especially with what is projected for this season.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1819 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:00 pm

 https://twitter.com/AndyHazelton/status/1420454337050992643




Andy Hazelton looks to be on fire today with regards to Atlantic hurricane discussions despite the lull!
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#1820 Postby cycloneye » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:22 pm

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