Was Andrew really a Cat 5 at landfall?

[SouthernWx]

Hey southernwx how strong do you think Ivan at his peak could of been?

Based on peak flight level winds (162 kt), I'd estimate 165-170 mph.
Ivan was a large cat-5 hurricane...and would have had lower sustained winds than a small cat-5 such as Andrew.

For example....the peak flight level wind measured in Andrew was 170 kts...at 922 mb. Hurricane Gilbert was much deeper (888 mb), but Gilbert was a large, sprawling monster...and max flight level winds observed were 173 kts...about the same as Andrew.

If and when AOML/ HRD gets around to re-evaluating major hurricanes of the 1960-1990 period, don't be surprised to see several other small, violent cat-4's increased to cat-5 status. Hurricane David in 1979 had peak flight level winds of 159 kts (183 mph) with a central pressure of 924 mb....if Andrew had sustained winds of 145-150 kts, then so did David. Hurricane Inez in 1966 had a central pressure of 927 mb south of Puerto Rico...but was very small, and flight level winds of 170 kt (197 mph) were measured. Also, 1977's hurricane Anita had 152 kt (175 mph) flight level winds (926 mb). All three of those hurricanes were IMO cat-5 at their peak.

What is the highest 700 mb flight level wind ever observed in an Atlantic hurricane? Reportedly, 183 kt (210 mph) flight level winds were measured in hurricane Allen when the central pressure was 899 mb. It's likely surface winds were sustained near 190 mph. Hurricane Camille's max flight level winds just before landfall were 180 kt (207 mph)....so likely surface winds were IMO 160-162 kt (185 mph) at landfall...gusting to 215-220 mph.

[Matthew5]

I understand that Derek...Andrew in Charley where alot the same. They where small storms with a very small eyewall. That had a really tight pressure grade. Ivan also had a small eye at points in his life. Just look at the 85z data at Nrl. To see that. Ivan was a tightly defined hurricane at some points at its life. It was not intill it got into the western Caribbean before Cuba it started to get large.

[panichead4469]

Those damage photos are absolutely amazing! sad, but definitely jaw-dropping

[AussieMark]

Don't some small storms have tornadic bursts in them which causes high damage compared to other areas which they affect.

this was in the Hurricane Celia report of 1970

Celia was a unique hurricane meteorologically in that most of the damage occurred in conjunction with explosive tornado-like winds that developed in the left semicircle. As Celia moved across the northern edge of Corpus Christi Bay the damage which occurred to the city of Corpus Christi to the south appeared to have resulted almost entirely from a few high energy bursts of west winds, all occurring in the course of about 15 minutes. The highest sustained winds were apparently no more than 120-130 mph. However, gust speeds locally reached values of 160 mph. Even to the right of the storm center the heaviest damage appeared to have occurred from south or southeast of the center.

[Aslkahuna]

of Andrew, Dr. Fujita believed precisely that. Conversely, they could have resulted from turbulent surfacing of the stronger winds just off the surface.

Steve