Ivan makes MAJOR HISTORY!

[TampaFl]

I do not think any one is argueing about the storm surge LAwxrgal. We are all in discussion about what the actual storm surge total was with Ivan. As posted eairlier, yes there was massive death and destruction, and it is all irrelavent on how high the surge was at this point based on what we have all seen. Once all the storm damage surveying is done and all the wind, pressure, recon., and surge data is analyzed, then we will know the true strength of Hurricane Ivan's strength at landfall. Lets keep all things in prospective here, lets help those that are in need of help, plus there is no harm in good ol'e fashion debate /discussion.


Robert

[LAwxrgal]

I do not think any one is argueing about the storm surge LAwxrgal. We are all in discussion about what the actual storm surge total was with Ivan. As posted eairlier, yes there was massive death and destruction, and it is all irrelavent on how high the surge was at this point based on what we have all seen. Once all the storm damage surveying is done and all the wind, pressure, recon., and surge data is analyzed, then we will know the true strength of Hurricane Ivan's strength at landfall. Lets keep all things in prospective here, lets help those that are in need of help, plus there is no harm in good ol'e fashion debate /discussion.


Robert

For the sake of argument, I heard 17-20 feet, not 30.

[TampaFl]

Agree with you LAwxrgal, that is what I have been hearing and reading.

Robert

[Sanibel]

This is why I left Sanibel the night before Charley. 200 people rode Charley out on Sanibel. I wonder what would have happened to them with an Ivan-like surge?


I don't think Ivan pushed a 30 foot surge. But I do think that perfect form he took in the north Gulf re-vamped some of his category 5 qualities, even if dry air suppressed strong re-intensification. This killer surge was probably a direct product of that last burst.

I'll bet there were people washed away who are not accounted for yet...

[wxman57]

Pensacola NWS says 9 ft:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mob/ivan_page/Ivan-main.htm

[Guest]

well he certainly left his mark here.... two days ago we had a massive tornado outbreak.

[borderPatrol2329]

Regardless of what height the actual storm surge was, I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't believe that it could have been considerably worse.

The problem here, in my opinion, is the media. Thirty feet sounds far more impressive than ten feet, and that sells newspapers. Unfortunately, it also breeds complacency. The next time a strong CAT-4 or CAT-5 approaches, some may think, "wel. a lot of people rode out Ivan, and it had a 30' surge. This one is only going to be a 20' surge, no big deal".

Riding out any Hurricane on a barrier Island is lunacy, for a number of reasons.
-One, you become locked into your decision many hours before landfall. Should there be rapid intensification just before landfall, as was with Camille, your fate is sealed. A Hurricane can also shift directions dramatically just before landfall.
-Two, a Barrier Island is only feet above sea level. On top of the surge are the storm tossed waves, which can only be described as a boiling tempest. Toss in some debris, such as boards from stairs and docks, and you add in a whole new destructive element. Even a CAT-1 can be dangerous on a Barrier Island.
-Three, should any kind of emergency arise, you are on your own. The intercoastal might as well be as wide as the Pacific. You are beyond help, and beyond rescue, and likely beyond communication. Chances are no one will ever know of your plight.

Anyone who would even consider riding out a Hurricane on a Barrier Island should hold their breath and time themselves. If they can't hold it for at least three hours, then riding it out is a bad idea. It is Russian Roulette with 5 bullets in the chamber. Unfortunately, many may be convinced they can, because they heard on TV about someone who did, and survived.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

Isabel only became a category 5 twice...

[Stormsfury]

Isabel only became a category 5 twice...

Isabel on best track information from the preliminary reports for Isabel does show that it was a category 5 on three separate occasions ... however, the last 2 times, it was only for 1 advisory period (6 hours) ... adjusted from when the original advisories which kept Isabel a CAT 5 continuously from the second upgrade to CAT 5 (CAT 5 status noted by *)

Code: Select all

 Date/Time  Lat   Long. Press.Kts. Status   
 06 / 0000  13.8  31.4  1009  30  tropical depression
 06 / 0600  13.9  32.7  1005  35  tropical storm
 06 / 1200  13.6  33.9  1003  40  "
 06 / 1800  13.4  34.9  1000  45  "
 07 / 0000  13.5  35.8  994  55  "
 07 / 0600  13.9  36.5  991  60  "
 07 / 1200  14.4  37.3  987  65  hurricane
 07 / 1800  15.2  38.5  984  70  "
 08 / 0000  15.8  39.7  976  80  "
 08 / 0600  16.5  40.9  966  95  "
 08 / 1200  17.1  42.0  952  110  "
 08 / 1800  17.6  43.1  952  110  "
 09 / 0000  18.2  44.1  948  115  "
 09 / 0600  18.9  45.2  948  115  "
 09 / 1200  19.4  46.3  948  115  "
 09 / 1800  20.0  47.3  948  115  "
 10 / 0000  20.5  48.3  952  110  "
 10 / 0600  20.9  49.4  952  110  "
 10 / 1200  21.1  50.4  948  115  "
 10 / 1800  21.1  51.4  942  120  "
 11 / 0000  21.2  52.3  935  125  "
 11 / 0600  21.3  53.2  935  125  "
 11 / 1200  21.4  54.0  925  135  "
*11 / 1800  21.5  54.8  915  145  "
*12 / 0000  21.6  55.7  920  140  "
*12 / 0600  21.7  56.6  920  140  "
*12 / 1200  21.6  57.4  920  140  "
*12 / 1800  21.7  58.2  920  140  "
 13 / 0000  21.8  59.1  925  135  "
 13 / 0600  21.9  60.1  935  130  "
 13 / 1200  22.1  61.0  935  135  "
*13 / 1800  22.5  62.1  932  140  "
 14 / 0000  22.9  63.3  935  135  "
 14 / 0600  23.2  64.6  939  135  "
 14 / 1200  23.5  65.8  935  135  "
*14 / 1800  23.9  67.0  933  140  "
 15 / 0000  24.3  67.9  937  130  "
 15 / 0600  24.5  68.8  940  125  "
 15 / 1200  24.8  69.4  946  120  "
 15 / 1800  25.3  69.8  949  115  "
 16 / 0000  25.7  70.2  952  105  "
 16 / 0600  26.3  70.5  955  100  "
 16 / 1200  26.8  70.9  959  95  "
 16 / 1800  27.4  71.2  959  95  "
 17 / 0000  28.1  71.5  957  95  "
 17 / 0600  28.9  71.9  957  95  "
 17 / 1200  29.7  72.5  957  90  "
 17 / 1800  30.6  73.0  955  90  "
 18 / 0000  31.5  73.5  953  90  "
 18 / 0600  32.5  74.3  956  90  "
 18 / 1200  33.7  75.2  956  90  "
 18 / 1800  35.1  76.4  958  85  "
 19 / 0000  36.7  77.7  969  65  "
 19 / 0600  38.6  78.9  988  50  tropical storm
 19 / 1200  40.9  80.3  997  35  extratropical
 19 / 1800  43.9  80.9  1000  30  "
 20 / 0000  48.0  81.0  1000  25  "
 20 / 0600          absorbed by extratropical low
 11 / 1800  21.5  54.8  915  145  minimum pressure
 18 / 1700  34.9  76.2  957  90  landfall at Drum Inlet, North Carolina



[Doc Seminole]

Hurricane History in USA

Lowest Pressure: 892 mb-1935
Highest Winds: 200 mph- 1935
Highest Gusts: 250 mph- 1935

Who was around to measure this great storm of 1935. Someone survived that to tell about it?

[Stormsfury]

Hurricane History in USA

Lowest Pressure: 892 mb-1935
Highest Winds: 200 mph- 1935
Highest Gusts: 250 mph- 1935

Who was around to measure this great storm of 1935. Someone survived that to tell about it?

There have been a few and they all tell quite a heralding tale ... what stands out for me besides the death and destruction that the Labor Day storm caused was the wind being so strong that the sand particles on the beach actually created sparks from the friction upon each other ... and also how the blowing sand had actually sandblasted everything, including on humans out in the storm...

SF

[Doc Seminole]

Hurricane History in USA

Lowest Pressure: 892 mb-1935
Highest Winds: 200 mph- 1935
Highest Gusts: 250 mph- 1935

Who was around to measure this great storm of 1935. Someone survived that to tell about it?

There have been a few and they all tell quite a heralding tale ...
SF

Well, I reckon there could have been (being before television) newspaper reporters standing out in those 200+ winds to report what they saw and holding onto their anemometers and barometers to measure the intensity. That would make for some very interesting tv coverage these days.

[HurricaneBill]

Regarding the sand creating sparks, one survivor remembered seeing the sparks and thinking that he had died and gone to hell.

I have heard two stories regarding the pressure. One was that some guy climbed up a tree to escape the surge. For some reason, he had a barometer with him and he recorded the pressure from there.

Another is that a bunch of people took shelter in a docked boat or something. The captain kept track of the pressure as the needle kept dipping lower and lower. When the needle went past the lowest point on the barometer, he'd draw marks as the needle went lower.

I'm not sure which one is more accurate. A hand-held barometer usually goes down to about 27.75 inches I think. However, there might have been available ones that went lower.

A barometer on a boat would definitely go lower than 27.75. However, how could the boat have survived the storm surge and winds?

I'm not doubting the 892 mb recording. There's no doubt in my mind that somebody observed and recorded it. If it's officially recorded, then it definitely happened. The question is how?

[Stormsfury]

This article from the AOML division will provide the details needed! ...

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/Storm_page ... ticle.html

[fuzzy]

Thought you surge fanatics might be interested in this little concrete guest house:

http://www.scrapbookscrapbook.com/DAC-ART/hurricane-proof-home.html

The page says that pics are coming soon. Me, I'd settle for just having the shower in that place.

[panichead4469]

bottom line for everyone: whether it be 10 ft. or 30 ft. , Ivan let everyone in his path know his name!! thats for sure!