ENSO Updates (2007 thru 2023)

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Re: ENSO=Dynamic Models forecast Weak El Nino by ASO

#2081 Postby cycloneye » Thu May 17, 2012 2:55 pm

All ENSO Models May Update

Weak El Nino is what the majority of them have for the peak of the North Atlantic Hurricane Season at August,September and October. As they say in last paragraph,caution is needed on longer range forecasts by them.

http://portal.iri.columbia.edu/portal/s ... 2&userID=2

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17 May 2012

Expected Conditions

What is the outlook for the ENSO status going forward? The official diagnosis and outlook was issued earlier this month in the NOAA/Climate Prediction Center ENSO Diagnostic Discussion, produced jointly by CPC and IRI. It stated that the earlier La Niña conditions had transitioned to neutral conditions, and that the neutral conditions are expected to persist at least through northern summer. Now, in the middle of May, a new set of model ENSO predictions is available as shown in the IRI/CPC ENSO prediction plume, discussed below. The current east-central tropical Pacific SSTs are now in ENSO-neutral territory, and in fact are very close to the exact climatological average. Subsurface temperatures across the equatorial Pacific have now risen to become mildly to moderately above average in the upper part of the ocean from the date line eastward to 100W. The thermocline depth along the equator is now above average across most of the tropical Pacific, an exception being a stretch of longitude near and just east of the dateline where the thermocline is just slightly shallower than average as a weak remnant of the dissipated La Niña.

As of mid-May, nearly all of the dynamical and statistical models predict ENSO-neutral conditions for the May-Jul season. All models then indicate warming from their starting anomaly values (for May-Jul) onward, although one or two show this only negligibly. For the May-Jul season, 92% of models indicate neutral ENSO conditions, while 8% (i.e., one dynamical model) indicate quick development of El Niño conditions. By late northern summer/autumn in Aug-Oct, 42% indicate neutral conditions and 58% predict El Niño conditions. At lead times of 3 or more months into the future, statistical and dynamical models that incorporate information about the ocean's observed subsurface thermal structure generally exhibit higher predictive skill than those that do not. For the Aug-Oct season, among models that do use subsurface temperature information, 35% predict ENSO-neutral SSTs, and 65% predict El Niño conditions. For all models, the preference for El Niño conditions maximizes for the Sep-Nov season (at 58%), and declines to below 50% for Dec-Feb 2012-13 and later. (Note 1).

Caution is advised in interpreting the distribution of model predictions as the actual probabilities. At longer leads, the skill of the models degrades, and skill uncertainty must be convolved with the uncertainties from initial conditions and differing model physics, leading to more climatological probabilities in the long-lead ENSO Outlook than might be suggested by the suite of models. Furthermore, the expected skill of one model versus another has not been established using uniform validation procedures, which may cause a difference in the true probability distribution from that taken verbatim from the raw model predictions.
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Re: Majority of Dynamic Models forecast Weak El Nino by ASO

#2082 Postby cycloneye » Fri May 18, 2012 7:26 pm

The 30 day SOI has begun to go down (+3.6) from the peak it was three days ago of +5.5. Let's see if this down trend is long or it is an up and down situation.

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#2083 Postby NDG » Fri May 18, 2012 7:55 pm

:uarrow: I am thinking that it should stay positive over the next 3-5 days as pressures in Tahiti stay high and pressures in Darwin lower a little bit at the same time.
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#2084 Postby NDG » Sun May 20, 2012 9:44 am

Code: Select all

Date Tahiti Darwin Daily** 30 day avg SOI 90 day avg SOI
16 May 2012 1011.13 1011.85 -17.22 4.57 0.39
17 May 2012 1011.39 1011.90 -15.61 3.90 0.28
18 May 2012 1012.83 1012.05 -5.73 3.26 0.19
19 May 2012 1013.84 1012.35 -0.29 2.60 0.18
20 May 2012 1013.76 1012.00 1.78 1.67 0.19


SOI daily values continue to go up but looking at the euro forecast for the southern hemisphere daily values should be crashing if not by the middle of week towards the end of the week as a huge high pressure moves over Australia and lower pressures move over Tahiti at the same time so the 30 day avg should continue to go down.
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Re: ENSO=CPC 5/21/12 =Nino 3.4 unchanged from last week (0.0C)

#2085 Postby cycloneye » Mon May 21, 2012 9:18 am

Climate Prediction Center 5/21/12 update

Nino 3.4 is unchanged from last week (0.0C)

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/a ... ts-web.pdf

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#2086 Postby Yellow Evan » Tue May 22, 2012 9:06 am

SOI values have been acting strange as of late.
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Re:

#2087 Postby Ntxw » Tue May 22, 2012 1:26 pm

Yellow Evan wrote:SOI values have been acting strange as of late.


I think it's fairly typical during a neutral state. Back and forth neither persistent. Some westerly bursts as mentioned by NDG with high pressure over Darwin soon. We'll see how much water it warms with it.
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#2088 Postby NDG » Wed May 23, 2012 6:28 am

May update of Eurosip is still very aggressive calling for at least a weak El Nino.
It even seems to be more aggressive than the ECWMF's seasonal forecast, why is that?

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#2089 Postby Kingarabian » Thu May 24, 2012 12:52 am

Honestly think El-Nino is on it's way. Really hot here in Hawaii compared to last year.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#2090 Postby cycloneye » Sat May 26, 2012 10:48 am

I didn't look at this thread for the past few days,but I see the 30 day SOI once again in negative territory after being positive for a few weeks. The question is if this new plunge will sustain and reach the El Nino threshold of -8 and below,or it will swing up and down for a while?

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Re: ENSO Updates

#2091 Postby jinftl » Sat May 26, 2012 1:06 pm

One thing is clear now...we will not be starting the 2012 Hurricane Season (the official start on June 1) with el nino conditions in place...the nino 3.4 region SST anomaly reported last week was smack dab in the middle of "neutral" at 0. El Nino is defined as the 3-month average for region 3.4 being +0.5C. The current conditions in late May and as we head into early June are adding enso neutral to the running 3-month average for April-May-June and May-June-July.

The latest NOAA probability graphic reinforces the current state of 'neutral':

* Note that the current forecast calls for less than a 30% chance of el nino conditions by June-July-August.
* ENSO neutral conditions stay at a bit higher probability than el nino conditions until November-December-January.

This all seems to suggest a season based on neutral conditions progressing to borderline weal el nino.

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Re: ENSO Updates

#2092 Postby Sambucol » Sat May 26, 2012 5:08 pm

jinftl wrote:One thing is clear now...we will not be starting the 2012 Hurricane Season (the official start on June 1) with el nino conditions in place...the nino 3.4 region SST anomaly reported last week was smack dab in the middle of "neutral" at 0. El Nino is defined as the 3-month average for region 3.4 being +0.5C. The current conditions in late May and as we head into early June are adding enso neutral to the running 3-month average for April-May-June and May-June-July.

The latest NOAA probability graphic reinforces the current state of 'neutral':

* Note that the current forecast calls for less than a 30% chance of el nino conditions by June-July-August.
* ENSO neutral conditions stay at a bit higher probability than el nino conditions until November-December-January.

This all seems to suggest a season based on neutral conditions progressing to borderline weal el nino.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2614/enso.jpg

Does this mean a more active hurricane season? Thanks.
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#2093 Postby Kingarabian » Sat May 26, 2012 6:05 pm

Nino 3.4 region is slowly warming.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#2094 Postby jinftl » Sat May 26, 2012 8:15 pm

Whether we will have an el nino at peak season is one variable..and one unknown that NOAA cited in their seasonal outlook they released last week.

From NOAA update:
"Another potentially competing climate factor would be El Niñoifit develops by late summer to early fall. In that case, conditions could be less conducive for hurricane formation and intensification during the peak months (August-October) of the season, possibly shifting the activity toward the lower end of the predicted range,” said Gerry Bell, Ph.D., lead seasonal hurricane forecaster at NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center.

It would be nice...but way to easy...if a season could be directly forecast and figured out in advance in terms of # storms, tracks of those storms, and impact to land for those storms based just on the forecast SST anomaly in a region of the Pacific that has yet to develop!

:lol:


Sambucol wrote:Does this mean a more active hurricane season? Thanks.
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#2095 Postby Ntxw » Sun May 27, 2012 9:53 am

I want to put a little reminder that there are other big factors than just ENSO state to consider when forecasting. Not to just assume El Nino will not include big storms or Neutral will provide ideal conditions. It is interesting to see that the last rise in SOI did not equate to a cooling of ENSO 3.4. Next update will be soon, lets see how the few days of negative SOI effected.
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Re:

#2096 Postby NDG » Mon May 28, 2012 2:50 pm

Kingarabian wrote:Nino 3.4 region is slowly warming.


Yes, but very slowly, at least for now. I have to think that the cold PDO has something to do with this.
Many are wanting to compared this to 2009 but back then there was no cold PDO so Nino 3.4 region warmed up a lot quicker than so far this year.

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This same time in 2009

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#2097 Postby Ntxw » Mon May 28, 2012 4:28 pm

East based Nino perhaps come latter? ^ 2008-2009 was actually a cold PDO period in terms of longterm which extends to now. It began in 2007 with minor upticks here and there.
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Re: ENSO CPC 5/29/12 Update=Nino 3.4 unchanged at 0.0C

#2098 Postby cycloneye » Tue May 29, 2012 9:29 am

Climate Prediction Center 5/29/12 Update

For a second week in a row,Nino 3.4 remains at 0.0C. Ntxw,the Kelvin Wave is not big enough by looking at this unchanged 3.4 data?

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/a ... ts-web.pdf

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Re: ENSO CPC 5/29/12 Update=Nino 3.4 unchanged at 0.0C

#2099 Postby Ntxw » Tue May 29, 2012 6:14 pm

cycloneye wrote:Climate Prediction Center 5/29/12 Update

For a second week in a row,Nino 3.4 remains at 0.0C. Ntxw,the Kelvin Wave is not big enough by looking at this unchanged 3.4 data?


That sounds about right. All year long the MJO has given me a hard time trying to figure out :x. As consistent against what the models showed, the MJO has remained incoherent and remained sparse. There hasn't really been a true kelvin wave since late March. All it has done is put up weak convection in different areas.

I've been trying to monitor the WPAC for tropical activity as this usually is precursor to a strong wave this time of year which is where we need it for upwelling and westerlies, just hasn't happened thus far in a large enough scale. Instead the activity has been in the EPAC and western Atlantic as shown by the storm formations which doesn't warm up 3.4. Just to show I still have a lot to learn regarding tropical forcing.

Consistently weak MJO signal for May
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#2100 Postby Hurricaneman » Tue May 29, 2012 10:07 pm

Is it possible that all the models are wrong
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