2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2281 Postby AxaltaRacing24 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:44 pm

toad strangler wrote:
AxaltaRacing24 wrote:
SFLcane wrote:If mid Aug approaches and the MJO is here and dry air is still around then it's going to be a problem.

possibly, but people tried cancelling 2017 in late august over the same thing.

then the dry air vanished shortly after august 20th.


Like the flip of a switch.

idk dude.

i just have a hard time believing that a season with above average rainfall in africa and the mdr will have more dry air than normal.

i feel like these dry air concerns are due to us seeing storms that shouldn't even have formed struggle with typical july conditions.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2282 Postby MarioProtVI » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:07 am

I think some claiming mid-level dry air will be a problem because of Gonzalo and TD 10 need to realize they both were in JULY, a month which normally is not very conducive for TC development in the MDR due to SAL (which was what led to Gonzalo’s demise which is common for MDR storms that early I think). As some have said, the lid will likely be flying off by August 20-25th and we could be in a prolonged stretch of intense activity if models and conditions prevail (which increasingly seems will be the case). One storm failing in the MDR in July to dry air/SAL does not equal season bust or less active then expected.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2283 Postby Hammy » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:14 am

SFLcane wrote:If mid Aug approaches and the MJO is here and dry air is still around then it's going to be a problem.


More than likely the MDR is simply not going to be ideal for most of the season, and we're going to continue having dry air outbreaks. With everything else being favorable, the more than likely outcome is a west-based season (similar to 1985 or 2005) rather than reduced or weaker activity.

MarioProtVI wrote:I think some claiming mid-level dry air will be a problem because of Gonzalo and TD 10 need to realize they both were in JULY, a month which normally is not very conducive for TC development in the MDR due to SAL


SSTs in the area TD10 tracked over are in the mid 70s--hardly ideal for sustained activity or convective support. It wasn't actually dry air that led to it's demise, and in fact Gonzalo so far is the only storm of the season whose dissipation was actually the result of atmospheric conditions, rather than geography (cooler waters/land).
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2284 Postby MarioProtVI » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:24 am

Hammy wrote:
SFLcane wrote:If mid Aug approaches and the MJO is here and dry air is still around then it's going to be a problem.


More than likely the MDR is simply not going to be ideal for most of the season, and we're going to continue having dry air outbreaks. With everything else being favorable, the more than likely outcome is a west-based season (similar to 1985 or 2005) rather than reduced or weaker activity.

MarioProtVI wrote:I think some claiming mid-level dry air will be a problem because of Gonzalo and TD 10 need to realize they both were in JULY, a month which normally is not very conducive for TC development in the MDR due to SAL


SSTs in the area TD10 tracked over are in the mid 70s--hardly ideal for sustained activity or convective support. It wasn't actually dry air that led to it's demise, and in fact Gonzalo so far is the only storm of the season whose dissipation was actually the result of atmospheric conditions, rather than geography (cooler waters/land).

All the indicators show the opposite for the MDR - one of the warmest on record and record low MSLP in July. Plus the MDR started moistening up around late July. Conditions can change like a switch and I believe after August 20 we will indeed see that reflected in the MDR.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2285 Postby SFLcane » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:03 am

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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2286 Postby toad strangler » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:17 am



WOW I'll see your :eek: and raise you one :eek: :eek:
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2287 Postby crownweather » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:32 am

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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2288 Postby Kazmit » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:33 am

Sometimes I wonder what the Atlantic hurricane season would look like if the Sahara desert didn't exist. :eek:
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2289 Postby toad strangler » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:39 am



The very strong dry anomalies just east of the Bahamas is very interesting. If I didn't know any better I'd think this would suggest a quiet rest of the season from the FL East Coast all the way up the eastern seaboard. But, I know better. I think :wink:
Last edited by toad strangler on Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2290 Postby TheStormExpert » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:39 am

Kazmit wrote:Sometimes I wonder what the Atlantic hurricane season would look like if the Sahara desert didn't exist. :eek:

Probably be like the East Pacific only worse as land would be inline down the road.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2291 Postby TheStormExpert » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:47 am

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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2292 Postby TheStormExpert » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:50 am

toad strangler wrote:


The very strong dry anomalies just east of the Bahamas is very interesting. If I didn't know any better I'd think this would suggest a quiet rest of the season from the FL East Coast all the way up the eastern seaboard. But, I know better. I think :wink:

It might have something to do with where the general placement of the Bermuda High is, but it’s just one model. I’m curious to see what the EURO, UKMET, and CANSIPS says?
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2293 Postby StruThiO » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:53 am

TheStormExpert wrote:

This guy seems pretty skeptical, wonder why?

https://twitter.com/tarcweather/status/1292084440022364160


Ignore him. hes a weenie
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2294 Postby toad strangler » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:56 am

StruThiO wrote:
TheStormExpert wrote:

This guy seems pretty skeptical, wonder why?

https://twitter.com/tarcweather/status/1292084440022364160


Ignore him. hes a weenie


Seriously, it's been documented many times in the past as to how quickly conditions can and do change in the tropics.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2295 Postby BYG Jacob » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:09 am

Just put your little hand in mine...
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2296 Postby Steve » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:57 am

There's a nearly all tropical, 20 minute Saturday Summary on Weatherbell up this morning. I guess this could go in the expert forecast threads too, but Joe says Weatherbell is not changing its hurricane forecast (except to account for 4 more named storms like 18-24 instead of 14-20). They are not changing their impact areas and want you to remember their other idea of storms strengthening and finding things more favorable as they're coming in for landfall. So that's something to watch out for since we've seen it already in a couple of storms. He does a nice job with the MJO and spends about 4-5 minutes on that aspect of the season. He did reference a potential burst of 6, 7 or 8 storms followed by a not so robust October period if the MJO returns to 4/5/6 which he thinks it might try to do around then (of course that doesn't mean it can't circle back down to 8-1-2-3). If so, another mild winter would be telegraphed for the East with only a short-burst of weather winter for the Eastern US. He further put in a good explanation tying in Isaias and Phase 4 of the MJO and why it came up east of FL (neutral area right along the coast during that phase rather than suppressed).

As it stands as of last night, EC and GFS MJO predictors now get us into Phase 1 by the 20th - e.g. burst of systems in the EPAC as a precursor to the ramp up in the Atlantic.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2297 Postby hurricanehunter69 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:15 am

This lull feels the same as the one back in July. And despite a strong suppressive Kelvin wave, strong sal outbreak, and climatology, we still produced Gonzalo and Hana. I would not bet against 2020 in this August lull. I'm all in on Josephine making her appearance before August 16th. We've got two decent players in the MDR right now.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2298 Postby Ubercast » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:19 am

toad strangler wrote:
StruThiO wrote:
TheStormExpert wrote:This guy seems pretty skeptical, wonder why?

https://twitter.com/tarcweather/status/1292084440022364160


Ignore him. hes a weenie



Seriously, it's been documented many times in the past as to how quickly conditions can and do change in the tropics.


How quick do things change though? Even I’m having a hard time believing that all the SAL and dry air is going to be gone by the end of August.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2299 Postby Hurricaneman » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:27 am

Ubercast wrote:
toad strangler wrote:
StruThiO wrote:
Ignore him. hes a weenie



Seriously, it's been documented many times in the past as to how quickly conditions can and do change in the tropics.


How quick do things change though? Even I’m having a hard time believing that all the SAL and dry air is going to be gone by the end of August.


1998 And 1999 is a good example as dust and dry air were prevalent through the first 20 dayS of August but after that big activity so yes things can change at the drop of a hat, the only thing holding things back right now is a suppressed kelvin wave and unfavorable mjo but by mid month those are forecast to become super favorable and that’s why we always say to never let your guard down
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2300 Postby EquusStorm » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:33 am

Just watching satellite loops, I realized August 1999 is a perfect example of a hyperactive season that blew up in perhaps the perfect 'flick of the switch' fashion that we're possibly expecting this year.

August 15 saw a dead basin with nothing but dry air in the MDR and hardly even any clouds; only tropical wave of note in the western Caribbean having struggled across the Atlantic without development

August 22 one week later saw category four Hurricane Bret develop in the western Gulf from the Caribbean wave, and the MDR suddenly became very favorable with Hurricane Cindy present just off frame to the east (temporarily a tropical storm, eventually reaching category four) and a strong tropical wave NE of the Lesser Antilles

August 27 sees Hurricane Cindy recurving, newly christened Hurricane Dennis developed from the Antilles wave headed for the East Coast, and Tropical Storm Emily fully developed from a wave east of the Antilles

Looks like early August 1999 was quieter than this August, at least we have tropical waves maintaining at least a little convection. When dry air finally starts to settle later in the month (still seems likely) things could get pretty nasty pretty fast... August 1999 wound up with two category fours, a category two, and an additional tropical storm after being literally completely dead the first half
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