2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#261 Postby TheStormExpert » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:15 pm

cycloneye wrote:
SFLcane wrote:In my years of tracking hurricanes i don't think i have seen sst's around FL and the bahamas this extreme warm ( this early). If things don't change it may very well have consequences if any tropical identity gets in there. :eek:

https://i.imgur.com/y9008vE.png


Much closer look by screenshot.

https://i.imgur.com/FJq6spG.jpg

The last thing anyone needs is a rapidly intensifying hurricane approaching The Bahamas and Florida, especially the former! Hopefully this look will change some by August or September.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#262 Postby toad strangler » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:59 pm

Africa would be manufacturing waves heading into true Cape Verde season looking at this

 http://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252735346825031680


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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#263 Postby aspen » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:32 pm

toad strangler wrote:Africa would be manufacturing waves heading into true Cape Verde season looking at this

http://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252735346825031680?s=20

Looks like it’s forecasting suppressed convection in parts or most of the Caribbean from July to September. Maybe that’ll be one thing to put a bit of a lid on tropical cyclone activity.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#264 Postby TheStormExpert » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:49 pm

toad strangler wrote:Africa would be manufacturing waves heading into true Cape Verde season looking at this

http://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252735346825031680?s=20

This doesn’t really scream an active Atlantic Hurricane season. Then again it’s the Euro which is normally under bullish in its seasonal outlooks.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#265 Postby toad strangler » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:53 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:
toad strangler wrote:Africa would be manufacturing waves heading into true Cape Verde season looking at this

http://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252735346825031680?s=20

This doesn’t really scream an active Atlantic Hurricane season. Then again it’s the Euro which is normally under bullish in its seasonal outlooks.


It's long range. I look for STRONG signals in the long range. The only STRONG signal in there that would affect the Atlantic basin is uber bullish for Africa.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#266 Postby Chris90 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:26 pm

 https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1249843352436170755




I may be interpreting this wrong, but what I gather from Eric Webb's tweet is the anomalous sinking/suppression seen in the basin in those images others posted above is normal and expected and actually doesn't indicate a suppressed Atlantic, but rather a favorable one, due to the MJO amplifying in the best phases for Atlantic development. I think we're looking at the potential for the MJO to act in a way to beef up those tropical waves coming off Africa, giving them the kick they need to develop earlier and farther east.

2005 and 2017 have been thrown around as some of the active season analogs for this year, and I think of the two, 2017 would be a more accurate analog as it generated a lot more ACE out in the MDR as opposed to 2005. I think we're getting signals that this could be a season heavy on the CV hurricanes.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#267 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:41 pm

Chris90 wrote:https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1249843352436170755?s=20

I may be interpreting this wrong, but what I gather from Eric Webb's tweet is the anomalous sinking/suppression seen in the basin in those images others posted above is normal and expected and actually doesn't indicate a suppressed Atlantic, but rather a favorable one, due to the MJO amplifying in the best phases for Atlantic development. I think we're looking at the potential for the MJO to act in a way to beef up those tropical waves coming off Africa, giving them the kick they need to develop earlier and farther east.

2005 and 2017 have been thrown around as some of the active season analogs for this year, and I think of the two, 2017 would be a more accurate analog as it generated a lot more ACE out in the MDR as opposed to 2005. I think we're getting signals that this could be a season heavy on the CV hurricanes.


The VP composite for each of the most recent hyperactive seasons pretty much supports that idea.
Image
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#268 Postby hurricaneCW » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:48 am

Everyone's focused on the pandemic and the hope for recovery but seeing these forecasts is truly worrisome.

The US is already beaten down, can you imagine 1 or more major hurricanes devastating parts of the southeast. I hope things crash and burn like 2013 though I have little confidence in that happening.

In addition a -NAO now doesn't bode well for summer when it's likely to flip +

The southeast ridge has been relentless past few years and it will likely only expand in the summer.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#269 Postby Shell Mound » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:35 am

TheStormExpert wrote:
USTropics wrote:
chaser1 wrote:The above graphic brings two questions to mind. Anyone out there happen to know what the earliest date for an Atlantic "Major" hurricane (Cat 3+) on record was? Other question was how many years (if any) had 3 or more Atlantic hurricanes formed prior to August 1st?


Hurricane Alex in 2010 and Hurricane Audrey in 1957 I believe are tied for lowest pressure systems in the Atlantic for the month of June.

Notable seasons with early hurricane activity (May-July) for modern satellite era:

1966 - 4 hurricanes, 5 total storms
https://i.imgur.com/2IiCFjG.png

2005 - 3 hurricanes, 7 total storms
https://i.imgur.com/g1VhpeY.png


Notable seasons with early hurricane activity (May-July) for pre-modern satellite era:

1886 - 4 hurricanes, 5 total storms
https://i.imgur.com/prjQizL.png

1916 - 3 hurricanes, 3 total storms
https://i.imgur.com/y58ldbH.png

1933 - 2 hurricanes, 5 total storms
https://i.imgur.com/7jn3QZc.png

1934 - 3 hurricanes, 3 total storms
https://i.imgur.com/luYkA3Z.png

1959 - 3 hurricanes, 5 total storms
https://i.imgur.com/6671zjP.png

I’m starting to think 1933 and 2005 are the closest analog years on that list at the moment, hopefully I’m wrong!

The key phrase: “at the moment.” Besides, no two seasons, even active ones, are alike. I wouldn’t start raising comparisons to '33 or '05 just yet.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#270 Postby Shell Mound » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:08 am

DorkyMcDorkface wrote:
NotSparta wrote:I'm kind of seeing a +AMO pattern, but stopping around Spain's latitude. Generally cool subtropics in the west, but warm east, w/ tropics generally leaning warm

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ba5be984a6b39dc2d8508295fff23d7288c1fefb97964b428b55c55c417e1f93.png


According to this chart, it technically qualifies as one, but it's not a classic "EOF #1" signature. More like EOF #3, particularly in the western and far north Atlantic.
https://i.ibb.co/tpKxhk0/EAPS5y3-Xo-A0-Twdt.jpg
Still, unlike the past two years, the subtropics aren't hogging most of the warmth this year.

Personally, when comparing the EOF chart to current SSTA in the basin, I would opine that this year seems more like a blend of EOF #2 and EOF #3. Note that the warmest SSTA in the far North Atlantic are displaced to the northeast of the British Isles, as is typical of EOF #2. Additionally, there are hints of cooler North Atlantic Deep Water (NADW) at the subsurface in the MDR, as even slightly-above-average easterlies quickly yield pockets of -SSTA, coupled with relatively warmer anomalies in the equatorial South Atlantic, near the Gulf of Guinea. Additionally, both EOF #2 and EOF #3 feature displaced warmth near the Bahamas and South Florida, to the north of the Greater Antilles. All these features combined are more typical of a -AMO than a +AMO. However, the tropical Atlantic is far warmer than it typically is in a classic -AMO—possibly an artefact of climate change, which yields global rises in average SSTs, not just in the MDR, but also in the tropical North Pacific and the Indian Ocean. All in all, the absence of a “textbook” +AMO signature, along with conflicting signals in the Pacific, is a key reason as to why I would not forecast a hyperactive Atlantic season just yet. There are still many uncertainties about the location of forcing by ASO, with some indications that the Pacific may counteract the Atlantic, in terms of sinking air and shear over the Caribbean and western MDR. As I have posted previously, while cool neutral ENSO can yield above-average seasons just like La Niña, history shows that most of the biggest (top-ten) ACE-producing Atlantic seasons had weak Niña conditions in place by ASO:
Indeed. This would make a well-above-average Atlantic season quite improbable, as opposed to a near-to-slightly-above-average year, which is far more probable and realistic. Based on mean MEI data for ASO, seven of the top ten years for ACE (since 1950) featured La Niña for ASO (bolded). Clearly, so long as a +AMO in place, the stronger La Niña gets, the more intense a season peaks.

1) 2005: -0.081
2) 1995: -0.731
3) 2004: +0.3075
4) 2017: -0.4965
5) 1950: -0.838
6) 1961: -0.5275
7) 1998: -0.841
8) 1999: -1.3805
9) 1969: +0.902
10) 1996: -0.536

Source
Additionally, Kaplan v2 SSTA data show that 1933 had a solid Niña in place by ASO, as did 1893. Only 1878 and 1887 featured neutral ENSO by ASO and still featured very high ACE indices, largely due to very strong, “textbook” +AMO signatures in place. (Similar “classic” +AMO signatures existed in 1893 and 1933, too, unlike in 2020 thus far.) So just about every hyperactive Atlantic season, ACE-wise, featured either La Niña or “classic” +AMO conditions (or both) by ASO. Years like 1969, 2004, and 2005 were exceptions, not the norm, among seasons with very high ACE. Since 2020 is not likely to feature either La Niña or a “classic” +AMO by ASO, based on historical precedent, it is highly unlikely to be a hyperactive year, either in terms of overall numbers or ACE. An above-average season? Very likely. Hyperactive? Highly unlikely. Of course, even well-below-average seasons can be quite destructive, as activity is only loosely correlated with landfall(s) and impact(s), if at all, as 1992 and 2010, each an opposing extreme, amply illustrated. However, the facts should be clear that it is probably still premature to start comparing 2020 to 1933, 2005, and other hyperactive luminaries. (I would also wish to add that, if activity is concentrated in the eastern MDR in 2020, then the eastward displacement of development makes landfalls less likely, barring favourable steering currents. Interestingly, wxman57 apparently is channeling 2013 as an analog.)
Last edited by Shell Mound on Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#271 Postby cycloneye » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:14 am

Shell Mound wrote:
DorkyMcDorkface wrote:
NotSparta wrote:I'm kind of seeing a +AMO pattern, but stopping around Spain's latitude. Generally cool subtropics in the west, but warm east, w/ tropics generally leaning warm

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ba5be984a6b39dc2d8508295fff23d7288c1fefb97964b428b55c55c417e1f93.png


According to this chart, it technically qualifies as one, but it's not a classic "EOF #1" signature. More like EOF #3, particularly in the western and far north Atlantic.
https://i.ibb.co/tpKxhk0/EAPS5y3-Xo-A0-Twdt.jpg
Still, unlike the past two years, the subtropics aren't hogging most of the warmth this year.

Personally, when comparing the EOF chart to current SSTA in the basin, I would opine that this year seems more like a blend of EOF #2 and EOF #3. Note that the warmest SSTA in the far North Atlantic are displaced to the northeast of the British Isles, as is typical of EOF #2. Additionally, there are hints of cooler North Atlantic Deep Water (NADW) at the subsurface in the MDR, as even slightly-above-average easterlies quickly yield pockets of -SSTA, coupled with relatively warmer anomalies in the equatorial South Atlantic, near the Gulf of Guinea. Additionally, both EOF #2 and EOF #3 feature displaced warmth near the Bahamas and South Florida, to the north of the Greater Antilles. All these features combined are more typical of a -AMO than a +AMO. However, the tropical Atlantic is far warmer than it typically is in a classic -AMO—possibly an artefact of climate change, which yields global rises in average SSTs, not just in the MDR, but also in the tropical North Pacific and the Indian Ocean. All in all, the absence of a “textbook” +AMO signature, along with conflicting signals in the Pacific, is a key reason as to why I would not forecast a hyperactive Atlantic season just yet. There are still many uncertainties about the location of forcing by ASO, with some indications that the Pacific may counteract the Atlantic, in terms of sinking air and shear over the Caribbean and western MDR. As I have posted previously, while cool neutral ENSO can yield above-average seasons just like La Niña, history shows that most of the biggest (top-ten) ACE-producing Atlantic seasons had weak Niña conditions in place by ASO:
Indeed. This would make a well-above-average Atlantic season quite improbable, as opposed to a near-to-slightly-above-average year, which is far more probable and realistic. Based on mean MEI data for ASO, seven of the top ten years for ACE (since 1950) featured La Niña for ASO (bolded). Clearly, so long as a +AMO in place, the stronger La Niña gets, the more intense a season peaks.

1) 2005: -0.081
2) 1995: -0.731
3) 2004: +0.3075
4) 2017: -0.4965
5) 1950: -0.838
6) 1961: -0.5275
7) 1998: -0.841
8) 1999: -1.3805
9) 1969: +0.902
10) 1996: -0.536

Source
Additionally, Kaplan v2 SSTA data show that 1933 had a solid Niña in place by ASO, as did 1893. Only 1878 and 1887 featured neutral ENSO by ASO and still featured very high ACE indices, largely due to very strong, “textbook” +AMO signatures in place. (Similar “classic” +AMO signatures existed in 1893 and 1933, too, unlike in 2020 thus far.) So just about every hyperactive Atlantic season, ACE-wise, featured either La Niña or “classic” +AMO conditions (or both) by ASO. Years like 1969, 2004, and 2005 were exceptions, not the norm, among seasons with very high ACE. Since 2020 is not likely to feature either La Niña or a “classic” +AMO by ASO, based on historical precedent, it is highly unlikely to be a hyperactive year, either in terms of overall numbers or ACE. An above-average season? Very likely. Hyperactive? Highly unlikely. Of course, even well-below-average seasons can be quite destructive, as activity is only loosely correlated with landfall(s) and impact(s), if at all, as 1992 and 2010, each an opposing extreme, amply illustrated. However, the facts should be clear that it is probably still premature to start comparing 2020 to 1933, 2005, and other hyperactive luminaries.


The bottomline is it only takes one.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#272 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:32 am

Shell Mound wrote:
DorkyMcDorkface wrote:
NotSparta wrote:I'm kind of seeing a +AMO pattern, but stopping around Spain's latitude. Generally cool subtropics in the west, but warm east, w/ tropics generally leaning warm

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ba5be984a6b39dc2d8508295fff23d7288c1fefb97964b428b55c55c417e1f93.png


According to this chart, it technically qualifies as one, but it's not a classic "EOF #1" signature. More like EOF #3, particularly in the western and far north Atlantic.
https://i.ibb.co/tpKxhk0/EAPS5y3-Xo-A0-Twdt.jpg
Still, unlike the past two years, the subtropics aren't hogging most of the warmth this year.

Personally, when comparing the EOF chart to current SSTA in the basin, I would opine that this year seems more like a blend of EOF #2 and EOF #3. Note that the warmest SSTA in the far North Atlantic are displaced to the northeast of the British Isles, as is typical of EOF #2. Additionally, there are hints of cooler North Atlantic Deep Water (NADW) at the subsurface in the MDR, as even slightly-above-average easterlies quickly yield pockets of -SSTA, coupled with relatively warmer anomalies in the equatorial South Atlantic, near the Gulf of Guinea. Additionally, both EOF #2 and EOF #3 feature displaced warmth near the Bahamas and South Florida, to the north of the Greater Antilles. All these features combined are more typical of a -AMO than a +AMO. However, the tropical Atlantic is far warmer than it typically is in a classic -AMO—possibly an artefact of climate change, which yields global rises in average SSTs, not just in the MDR, but also in the tropical North Pacific and the Indian Ocean. All in all, the absence of a “textbook” +AMO signature, along with conflicting signals in the Pacific, is a key reason as to why I would not forecast a hyperactive Atlantic season just yet. There are still many uncertainties about the location of forcing by ASO, with some indications that the Pacific may counteract the Atlantic, in terms of sinking air and shear over the Caribbean and western MDR. As I have posted previously, while cool neutral ENSO can yield above-average seasons just like La Niña, history shows that most of the biggest (top-ten) ACE-producing Atlantic seasons had weak Niña conditions in place by ASO:
Indeed. This would make a well-above-average Atlantic season quite improbable, as opposed to a near-to-slightly-above-average year, which is far more probable and realistic. Based on mean MEI data for ASO, seven of the top ten years for ACE (since 1950) featured La Niña for ASO (bolded). Clearly, so long as a +AMO in place, the stronger La Niña gets, the more intense a season peaks.

1) 2005: -0.081
2) 1995: -0.731
3) 2004: +0.3075
4) 2017: -0.4965
5) 1950: -0.838
6) 1961: -0.5275
7) 1998: -0.841
8) 1999: -1.3805
9) 1969: +0.902
10) 1996: -0.536

Source
Additionally, Kaplan v2 SSTA data show that 1933 had a solid Niña in place by ASO, as did 1893. Only 1878 and 1887 featured neutral ENSO by ASO and still featured very high ACE indices, largely due to very strong, “textbook” +AMO signatures in place. (Similar “classic” +AMO signatures existed in 1893 and 1933, too, unlike in 2020 thus far.) So just about every hyperactive Atlantic season, ACE-wise, featured either La Niña or “classic” +AMO conditions (or both) by ASO. Years like 1969, 2004, and 2005 were exceptions, not the norm, among seasons with very high ACE. Since 2020 is not likely to feature either La Niña or a “classic” +AMO by ASO, based on historical precedent, it is highly unlikely to be a hyperactive year, either in terms of overall numbers or ACE. An above-average season? Very likely. Hyperactive? Highly unlikely. Of course, even well-below-average seasons can be quite destructive, as activity is only loosely correlated with landfall(s) and impact(s), if at all, as 1992 and 2010, each an opposing extreme, amply illustrated. However, the facts should be clear that it is probably still premature to start comparing 2020 to 1933, 2005, and other hyperactive luminaries.


Oh, I agree that I wouldn't go hyperactive right now. It really does take a lot for that to happen. I was just making a comparison between what some of the models were forecasting and what conditions were generally like for each of those seasons.

And yes, it does only take one storm to make a season.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#273 Postby toad strangler » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:38 am

cycloneye wrote:

The bottomline is it only takes one.


Yes, 1992 just phoned in from a landline and concurs
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#274 Postby AutoPenalti » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:49 am

toad strangler wrote:Africa would be manufacturing waves heading into true Cape Verde season looking at this

http://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252735346825031680?s=20

That forecast doesn’t really stand out as active to be honest but i could be wrong
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#275 Postby cycloneye » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:17 am

Oh boy.

 https://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252979221540016128



And this reply from Webb. Looks like the wave train will start early.

 https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1252983359355092992


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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#276 Postby aspen » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:10 am

cycloneye wrote:Oh boy.

https://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252979221540016128

And this reply from Webb. Looks like the wave train will start early.

https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1252983359355092992

Full-blown La Niña, enhanced convection in the Atlantic, enhanced moisture throughout the MDR and the Caribbean, uniformly above-average SSTs...yeah, those are some very concerning results.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#277 Postby SFLcane » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:40 am

cycloneye wrote:Oh boy.

https://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252979221540016128
And this reply from Webb. Looks like the wave train will start early.

https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1252983359355092992


Yikes.. those maps scream a very active season ahead. September looks about as favorable as it gets. :crazyeyes:
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#278 Postby Shell Mound » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:33 pm

aspen wrote:
cycloneye wrote:Oh boy.

https://twitter.com/BenNollWeather/status/1252979221540016128

And this reply from Webb. Looks like the wave train will start early.

https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1252983359355092992

Full-blown La Niña, enhanced convection in the Atlantic, enhanced moisture throughout the MDR and the Caribbean, uniformly above-average SSTs...yeah, those are some very concerning results.

The JMA’s convective scheme, however, isn’t as reliable as the CFSv2 or ECMWF, especially in the long range. I would give it less weight than the latter two.
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WeatherEmperor
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#279 Postby WeatherEmperor » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:18 pm

Here is what the CFS shows for Sept 2020

Image


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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#280 Postby Shell Mound » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:18 pm

WeatherEmperor wrote:Here is what the CFS shows for Sept 2020

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200422/9c5d0b6a219fcee8938eedbaecf86abb.jpg


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Just as the ECMWF has been notorious for its warm bias, so the CFSv2 has also been notorious for its cool bias. The latter has consistently underestimated surface warmth in the NINO regions thus far. Moreover, its individual ensembles show a large spread as early as May. Its forecasts for short-term cooling have been highly unrealistic. The live data indicate a much slower rate of cooling than the CFSv2: in short, a delayed onset. Even though the rate of cooling will likely accelerate in the coming months, it will likely be insufficient to result in trimonthly Niña conditions by ASO. At most, cool neutral ENSO is likely to be present by the peak of the Atlantic season, not La Niña.
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