Invest 97L Observation, Interpretation & Analysis (#2)

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ROCK
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#281 Postby ROCK » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:26 pm

wxman57 wrote:
Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:Its way to early to make a track forecast for the Gulf of this system. Look at the model trend. The ridge can be stronger or the trough could be stronger thats whats going to make the final track.


No, it is not way too early to make a forecast. We have to do it every day. If this were declared a depression tonight/tomorrow, we have to immediately make a track forecast. Now it IS to early to be very confident about a likely landfall point along the Gulf Coast.



Looks like you might have some late nights coming up Wx57...
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#282 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:28 pm

A few days ago Derek Ortt said that the Caribbean is alot like 1997. I agree with him a tutt is set up camp aroudn 65-70 west. With increasing upper level shear. A weak upper level Anticyclone is decreasing shear over the top of our system. A remember a month ago that was kind of like this in shear set up. In it outrun its Anticcyclone, in got sheared to death. The quation should be will this tutt lifted out or move westwrad fast enough to not shear this system. If this thing can strengthen its Anticyclone or this tutt moves out of its way then yes this could do something.

Also 1997 did not have any cyclone over the Caribbean.
http://weather.unisys.com/hurricane/atl ... index.html

Just noting the bad for this system. The good is this system looks very good...In should close off over the next 24 hours. In I expect the Anticyclone to move the shear out of this systems way. I don't think it will have a easie time becoming a strong hurricane if it wents to become one.

What do you think?
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#283 Postby Dean4Storms » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:28 pm

Looks to me like an upper TX. threat.
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#284 Postby Damar91 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:28 pm

Rainband wrote:
Trugunzn wrote:shows same path like Charley.
different setup with Charley. Something would have to change Drastically for this to be a threat to Florida.


I know it's early, but from the models I've seen do far, it would have to go too much further north to effect Florida. Not too drastic to me.
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#285 Postby Portastorm » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:28 pm

For what it's worth, JB tonight in his column update says he sees this system as more a Texas problem than a Louisiana problem. He also appears a bit reluctant to go hog wild on development at least tonight ... but believes we're about to enter an extremely busy period with the entire Atlantic basin in an upward pulse.
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#286 Postby Rainband » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:29 pm

CYCLONE MIKE wrote:Is it just me or do people need to take a few minutes away from there computers, slow down there breathing and heart rates, and just calm down. I live 60 miles from N.O. LA and not worried at all about this "yet". For one it is still just an invest granted it does look very good tonight. Secondly it is a good 6 days from being around the gulf and as we know a lot can and will change by then. Third how often have the models been correct as to where a "potential storm" will be in 10 days. Lastly how many times this year has something almost everyone thought would be a player go POOF. Granted I know this could wind up a hurricane but as of now it is just pure speculation.
I agree. I seem to recall a few days back there was a storm shown by the models that was supposed to hit the Central GOM. It never materialized. :wink:
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#287 Postby wxman57 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:36 pm

skysummit wrote:http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/248/2004390750751322368_rs.jpg


All those models are not necessarily good in this situation. BAM models aren't dynamic, others are climatology (A98E, CLP, CLP5). LBAR is terrible all the time, and XTRAP is a simple extrapolated track.

Need to look at more dynamic models, preferably a few consensus models like CONU. GFDL, too.
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#288 Postby skysummit » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:38 pm

wxman57 wrote:
skysummit wrote:http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/248/2004390750751322368_rs.jpg


All those models are not necessarily good in this situation. BAM models aren't dynamic, others are climatology (A98E, CLP, CLP5). LBAR is terrible all the time, and XTRAP is a simple extrapolated track.

Need to look at more dynamic models, preferably a few consensus models like CONU. GFDL, too.


I know, but because of license agreements, I can't add those to the image :(
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#289 Postby wxman57 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:38 pm

ROCK wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:Its way to early to make a track forecast for the Gulf of this system. Look at the model trend. The ridge can be stronger or the trough could be stronger thats whats going to make the final track.


No, it is not way too early to make a forecast. We have to do it every day. If this were declared a depression tonight/tomorrow, we have to immediately make a track forecast. Now it IS to early to be very confident about a likely landfall point along the Gulf Coast.



Looks like you might have some late nights coming up Wx57...


More early mornings. Get up 4 to 4:30, get home from work 5:30, talk about storm here until 10. Go to bed 11pm. Lather, rinse, repeat. ;-)
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#290 Postby ronjon » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:38 pm

EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
254 PM EDT WED AUG 23 2006

VALID 12Z SAT AUG 26 2006 - 12Z WED AUG 30 2006

THE PRELIM HPC FCST WAS DERIVED PRIMARILY FROM A BLEND OF THE 00Z GFS/ECMWF FOR DAYS 3-5 AND THEN THE 00Z ECMWF/NCEP ENSEMBLE MEAN FOR DAYS 6-7. HOWEVER...NOW PREFER FOR OUR FINAL PROGS TO TREND OUR PRELIM GUIDANCE PARTIALLY TOWARD THE MORE AMPLIFIED FLOW SOLUTION FAVORED BY THE 12 UTC GFS CONSIDERING FAVORABLE SUPPORT TOWARD A MORE AMPLIFIED SOLUTION IN MUCH OF THE NEWER 12 UTC GLOBAL MODELS AND ENSEMBLES...A TREND THAT WOULD BRING HPC GUIDANCE INTO BETTER CONTINUITY WITH YESTERDAYS HPC GUIDANCE.

D+8 MEAN CHARTS FROM OPERATIONAL MODELS/ENSEMBLE MEANS HAVE BEEN SOMEWHAT INCONSISTENT WITH THE XISTENCE/STRENGTH OF BEST DEFINED FEATURES BY THE MIDDLE OF NEXT WEEK. THE MOST COMMON ANOMALY CENTERS HAVE BEEN POSITIVE ONES OVER THE WRN ALEUTIANS/KAMCHATKA AND GREENLAND... AND A NEGATIVE CENTER OVER THE EXTREME NERN ATLANTIC. THESE FEATURES GENERALLY CORRESPOND TO A MEAN TROF OVER ERN NOAM AND LOW AMPLITUDE FLOW OVER WRN NOAM. THERE IS NOT YET CLEAR SUPPORT FOR A CNTRL ALEUTIANS RIDGE THAT YIELDS THE MORE MPLIFIED NERN PAC TROF OF THE 00Z AND YDAYS 12Z GFS RUNS...BUT
LATEST 12 UTC GUIDANCE AND WATER VAPOR CERTAINLY OPENS THE DOOR FOR THAT POTENTIAL TO BE MONITORED.

Hmmm, sounds like a lot of uncertainty as to the upper air pattern in 6-7 days. I don't like the talk of a more amplified pattern. :roll:
Last edited by ronjon on Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#291 Postby Rainband » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:39 pm

wxman57 wrote:
skysummit wrote:http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/248/2004390750751322368_rs.jpg


All those models are not necessarily good in this situation. BAM models aren't dynamic, others are climatology (A98E, CLP, CLP5). LBAR is terrible all the time, and XTRAP is a simple extrapolated track.

Need to look at more dynamic models, preferably a few consensus models like CONU. GFDL, too.
What ever happened to the Central GOM system?? Seems like the models dropped the ball on that one. Not that anyone should be complaining. Is the environment difficult to predict this year. Seems like the models are having Problems??
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#292 Postby PTPatrick » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:39 pm

I agree, this is nothing to get excited over yet. Sure the models are looking a lot like tracks of infamous storms over the past few years...i.e: Charley, Ivan, Dennis, Charley, Emily...That doesnt mean Ernesto will. This could just as easily get sheared apart and plow into the yucatan or further south as a depression or nothing at all. I give it 48 hours...if we have a storm moving WNW through the Carribean and models saying GOM, then I will get worried.

And PS...what has JB NOT forecasted to be a Texas threat. Seems like he has been quite bullish over the past couple of years on a big Texas hit...Just because they are "overdue" doesnt mean it will happend. Sure, if he calls Texas enough he will get it right eventually. I dont mean this to dog JB either, I actually value his analysis, MOSTLY, but I kind of tired of hearing Texas threat with everything.
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#293 Postby wxman57 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:40 pm

skysummit wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
skysummit wrote:http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/248/2004390750751322368_rs.jpg


All those models are not necessarily good in this situation. BAM models aren't dynamic, others are climatology (A98E, CLP, CLP5). LBAR is terrible all the time, and XTRAP is a simple extrapolated track.

Need to look at more dynamic models, preferably a few consensus models like CONU. GFDL, too.


I know, but because of license agreements, I can't add those to the image :(


Ah, but I have no such agreements. One sec. Making a plot now...
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#294 Postby Portastorm » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:41 pm

PTPatrick wrote:I agree, this is nothing to get excited over yet. Sure the models are looking a lot like tracks of infamous storms over the past few years...i.e: Charley, Ivan, Dennis, Charley, Emily...That doesnt mean Ernesto will. This could just as easily get sheared apart and plow into the yucatan or further south as a depression or nothing at all. I give it 48 hours...if we have a storm moving WNW through the Carribean and models saying GOM, then I will get worried.

And PS...what has JB NOT forecasted to be a Texas threat. Seems like he has been quite bullish over the past couple of years on a big Texas hit...Just because they are "overdue" doesnt mean it will happend. Sure, if he calls Texas enough he will get it right eventually. I dont mean this to dog JB either, I actually value his analysis, MOSTLY, but I kind of tired of hearing Texas threat with everything.


Folks, I'm just posting some info because I know some here like to see what he is saying ... and y'all scared poor EWG, who usually posts info about JB's column. I haven't seen EWG all day except for a little note. :lol:
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#295 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:41 pm

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real- ... g8shr.html


This reminds me was it 98L in mid to late July. Almost perfectly like it. 20 to 30 knot shear over the eastern Caribbean. With the core of the trough at around 75 west southwest to northeast. With 40 knots of shear over PR. Upper level Anticyclone right on top of the cyclone/invest making a small area of faverable upper level. You can also look at the visible in see how small this area is with the shear racing by to the north.

Here is the shear maps for all to see that this system has something against it...
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#296 Postby hicksta » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:42 pm

How are you saying its an upper texas coast threat when the thing isnt even near the gulf
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#297 Postby ConvergenceZone » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:42 pm

wxman57 wrote:
ROCK wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:Its way to early to make a track forecast for the Gulf of this system. Look at the model trend. The ridge can be stronger or the trough could be stronger thats whats going to make the final track.


No, it is not way too early to make a forecast. We have to do it every day. If this were declared a depression tonight/tomorrow, we have to immediately make a track forecast. Now it IS to early to be very confident about a likely landfall point along the Gulf Coast.



Looks like you might have some late nights coming up Wx57...


More early mornings. Get up 4 to 4:30, get home from work 5:30, talk about storm here until 10. Go to bed 11pm. Lather, rinse, repeat. ;-)


wxman57,
I"m surprised you have the energy and desire to be on this board after working with this type of stuff at work all day long. I guess the only thing I can think of is that it really shows your love for what you do... :)
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#298 Postby PTPatrick » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:43 pm

Sorry Porta...that came out catty, not meant to be. Keep posting JB's thoughts as they are always grounded at least somewhat in reality, and therefor worth the read. It just seems like he is ready the Galveston 1900 repeat.
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#299 Postby ConvergenceZone » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:46 pm

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-time/atlantic/winds/wg8shr.html


This reminds me was it 98L in mid to late July. Almost perfectly like it. 20 to 30 knot shear over the eastern Caribbean. With the core of the trough at around 75 west southwest to northeast. With 40 knots of shear over PR. Upper level Anticyclone right on top of the cyclone/invest making a small area of faverable upper level. You can also look at the visible in see how small this area is with the shear racing by to the north.

Here is the shear maps for all to see that this system has something against it...


Hmmm, well, the models and Mets are obviously seeing something different, otherwise I'm sure they would all agree that the storm would just fizzle out, but that's not the case. So I guess they are seeing something differently than what the shear maps are showing.
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#300 Postby JTD » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:48 pm

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-time/atlantic/winds/wg8shr.html


This reminds me was it 98L in mid to late July. Almost perfectly like it. 20 to 30 knot shear over the eastern Caribbean. With the core of the trough at around 75 west southwest to northeast. With 40 knots of shear over PR. Upper level Anticyclone right on top of the cyclone/invest making a small area of faverable upper level. You can also look at the visible in see how small this area is with the shear racing by to the north.

Here is the shear maps for all to see that this system has something against it...


So Matt, at this time, you do not expect this invest to become Ernesto?
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