2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
TomballEd
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 682
Age: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:52 pm
Location: Spring/Klein area, not Tomball

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#301 Postby TomballEd » Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:27 pm

Stratton23 wrote:18z GFS shows some gulf mischief in the 9-10 day window as another front stalls out along the gulf coast, energy pinches off into the NE gulf, could be something to watch if runs persist and if any other models start seeing it


0Z Euro ensembles have >10% of the members developing something either side of Florida. GFS ensembles not as interested but 6Z GFS might develop a system on the Gulf side of Florida except what develops on the tail of the trough is too close to land. 9 days out but something to watch.
1 likes   

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#302 Postby Stratton23 » Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:48 pm

TomballEd agreed that its something to watch, 18z GFS out to day 10 and has a pretty decent 850 MB vort disturbance south of lousiana moving west, no development, but not far off from showing some weak development
0 likes   

BobHarlem
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2090
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:11 pm

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#303 Postby BobHarlem » Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:00 pm

12z euro showing the gulf thing fairly well now
Image
6 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145230
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#304 Postby cycloneye » Tue Jul 08, 2025 3:23 pm

CPC highlights the northern Gulf for week 2.

https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... /index.php

Image
4 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#305 Postby Stratton23 » Tue Jul 08, 2025 5:46 pm

18z GFS gets close to showing a weak closed surface low approaching the middle- upper texas coast at days 9-10
1 likes   

BobHarlem
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2090
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:11 pm

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#306 Postby BobHarlem » Tue Jul 08, 2025 9:15 pm

Stratton23 wrote:18z GFS gets close to showing a weak closed surface low approaching the middle- upper texas coast at days 9-10


The 18z GFS also shows an area approaching East Central Florida on the 19th-22nd. CMC also shows the Gulf system.
0 likes   

TomballEd
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 682
Age: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:52 pm
Location: Spring/Klein area, not Tomball

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#307 Postby TomballEd » Tue Jul 08, 2025 11:19 pm

Euro ensemble has a few members. Not much on the Canadian or GFS ensembles. Not really sure what CPC is seeing although ECMWF has a 20-30% probability of a TC on the ECMWF.int product page.

 https://x.com/iCyclone/status/1942734000491225105

0 likes   

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#308 Postby Stratton23 » Tue Jul 08, 2025 11:46 pm

00z GFS continues to get very close to showing a TD in the fulf late next week, energy tries to consolidate into a weak low, kinda of an elongated low/ trough axis approaching sw lousiana- upper texas coast day 10
1 likes   

User avatar
chaser1
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 5462
Age: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Longwood, Fl

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#309 Postby chaser1 » Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:03 am

In concert with the Climate Prediction Center from last night, I can see where at least the 6Z GFS might be suggesting a "rough" convergence of a weak sloppy LLC in the EGOM beginning late Monday/early Tuesday next week. Primary genesis seems to originate from the southern end of a decaying surface trough just east of Jacksonville. The weak surface feature appears to split off and shift southwestward to just west of South Florida. The catalyst for possible development was hard to find however with little to nothing showing up in any of the GFS surface or low to mid level vorticity charts. While looking at the broader basin 300mb -700mb RH forecast (and a rather dry Atlantic), I noticed what appeared to be a fairly large & defined mid level low that appears trapped under the strong mid level ridging forcing it westward and approx centered near S Florida by around Tuesday/Wednesday next week. Right now the entire hot-mess would appear to be broad with the initial surface feature a bit further west & north. Too few details, too little model support, timing and conditions remain to be known yet but I could see a low-end possibility (10%-20%) for a TD to develop around the Upper Texas coast sometime later next week.
4 likes   
Andy D

(For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.)

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#310 Postby Stratton23 » Wed Jul 09, 2025 2:27 pm

12z GFS does show development, albeit a weak system, an uptick noticed today on Euro AIFS 12z ensembles, a couple more GEPS members too, Op euro still nothing yet
0 likes   

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#311 Postby Stratton23 » Wed Jul 09, 2025 5:45 pm

Development aside, that 500 mb height steering pattern on the GFS in the 7-10 day range is somewhat concerning , lots of ridging to the north of whatever tries to develop, meaning a westward track toward Louisiana or texas
1 likes   

USTropics
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 2646
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:45 am
Location: Florida State University

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#312 Postby USTropics » Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:21 am

chaser1 wrote:In concert with the Climate Prediction Center from last night, I can see where at least the 6Z GFS might be suggesting a "rough" convergence of a weak sloppy LLC in the EGOM beginning late Monday/early Tuesday next week. Primary genesis seems to originate from the southern end of a decaying surface trough just east of Jacksonville. The weak surface feature appears to split off and shift southwestward to just west of South Florida. The catalyst for possible development was hard to find however with little to nothing showing up in any of the GFS surface or low to mid level vorticity charts. While looking at the broader basin 300mb -700mb RH forecast (and a rather dry Atlantic), I noticed what appeared to be a fairly large & defined mid level low that appears trapped under the strong mid level ridging forcing it westward and approx centered near S Florida by around Tuesday/Wednesday next week. Right now the entire hot-mess would appear to be broad with the initial surface feature a bit further west & north. Too few details, too little model support, timing and conditions remain to be known yet but I could see a low-end possibility (10%-20%) for a TD to develop around the Upper Texas coast sometime later next week.


Some really astute observations and definitely a unique process that may unfold later next week. As you stated above, finding the origins for development can be difficult in this particular scenario and I'll explain why. First, our trigger is really barotropic instability here, which will 'spawn' a series of what we call edge waves. Let's start with the general setup at 72 hours on the GFS first though, and I’ll explain later why we expect such an evolution:


Image
The stage is really set by two key features in the atmosphere: expanding high pressure in the eastern Atlantic heading west, and expanding high pressure over the northeast CONUS. These high-pressure systems create a dynamic environment by "stretching" or elongating a potential vorticity (PV) streamer. Papin has done some tremendous work on PV streamers (https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/mwre/151/4/MWR-D-22-0038.1.xml), but I’ll summarize it as basically this: they are narrow bands of air with high vorticity (a measure of rotation in the atmosphere) often associated with the jet stream or upper-level troughs. In this scenario, the PV streamer is stretched out towards the eastern CONUS/GOM, setting up a favorable environment for instability. Additionally, a tropical wave passing through the Bahamas provides an extra ‘boost’ to this setup.

So this is our basic setup, but what's the ultimate trigger? And more importantly, what’s the eventual outcome (e.g., tropical cyclone)? That’s a bit trickier to figure out, and the first thing we need to identify are some other key features to look for.

Vorticity
The first thing we want to identify is where our PV axis is. There are various products we can use to do this (350-K isentropic, PV surfaces, 2 PVU bounded, etc.) and I’ll use the 2 PVU bounded surface product from Pivotal here (animated out to 120 hours):
Image

Moisture
I’m going to highly suggest checking out some of the products that Alicia Bentley made while doing her doctoral degree at Albany (https://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/abentley/realtime.html) (side note: she now works at the NOAA with the EMC verification team - https://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/users/verification/). In particular, when dealing with these types of situations, I really like to look at the 700 hPa heights with the integrated water vapor transport (IVT) product:

Image
https://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/abentley/realtime/standard.php?domain=northamer&variable=IVT_conv

So in one product, we get:
  • The 700 hPa height contours that let us assess the mid-level structure of the atmosphere (e.g., troughs, ridges, areas of rotation/vorticity, etc.).
  • IVT shaded, which measures the transport of water vapor through the atmosphere, integrated from the surface to the upper levels.
  • And more significantly, we get IVT vectors—this highlights regions where large amounts of moisture are being transported (and where our tropical wave comes into play here).
Why is this important? Why did I just go down a side tangent to explain what IVT is? Because we have a process that is starting out barotropic, but we want to identify if the ultimate outcome is a tropical cyclone. We are going to need moisture transport and latent heat for this. Now let’s go revisit our friend barotropic instability again.

Instability
Like I stated above in the first section, barotropic instability is our main forcing mechanism here. This occurs in regions where there is a strong horizontal shear in the wind field, often near a jet stream or a PV streamer. In this case, the stretching of the PV streamer by the high-pressure systems creates a zone of strong wind shear, and it’s this shear that destabilizes the flow, making it prone to breaking down into smaller, rotating features.

Think of barotropic instability like a river flowing over rocks: the smooth flow (the PV streamer) encounters an obstacle (shear from the high-pressure systems), causing the flow to break into eddies or swirls. As the barotropic instability takes hold, the PV streamer doesn’t remain a single, coherent feature. Instead, it begins to break apart into smaller, wavelike disturbances called edge waves (which eventually evolve into vorticity maximums). So we know what causes this (shear), and this is likely going to cause edge waves (vort maxes), but what exactly are these in the real world? What do they look like? Let’s take a step back and look at that first.

Edge waves aren’t too dissimilar from Rossby waves (you can check out my post on Rossby waves and wave breaking here - https://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=3123290#p3123290). The main difference is Rossby waves are a result of planetary vorticity gradients, while edge waves rely on background relative vorticity gradients AND are confined to an edge in the velocity profile. This is a modeled simulation, but essentially the mechanisms can be seen here ( https://atmos.washington.edu/cgi-bin/wxloop.cgi?/home/disk/user_www/hakim/542/baro/+all).

This is a classic example of edge waves in the high latitudes, consolidating into vort maximums on water vapor satellite imagery:
Image

Now let’s go apply this to our latest GFS run, and I’ll highlight where the model has these edge waves (confined to the edge around the high pressure area) consolidate into vorticity maximums next week:
Image

Hopefully I haven’t gone too far down the rabbit hole here, but we can now summarize everything as such:
  • As the edge waves grow, they can break off from the main PV streamer, forming multiple, independent areas of vorticity.
  • Each edge wave can develop into a vortex or a vorticity maximum.
  • The tropical wave in the Bahamas adds energy and moisture to the system, potentially enhancing the development of these vorticity centers by providing additional lift and instability.
The result is a series of discrete vorticity areas, which could manifest as multiple low-pressure systems, mesoscale convective systems, or even potential tropical or subtropical cyclones, depending on the environment. How good are models at forecasting these scenarios 120+ hours out? I don’t have an exact numerical verification score, but I can tell you it is an extremely difficult process to model and their skill would be low. Definitely something cool to watch over the next week and to see if all the ingredients come together though.
30 likes   

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#313 Postby Stratton23 » Thu Jul 10, 2025 1:25 pm

12z EPS coming in a tad more bullish
1 likes   

User avatar
Kohlecane
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 593
Age: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:03 pm
Location: Beaufort, SC

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#314 Postby Kohlecane » Thu Jul 10, 2025 6:31 pm

USTropics wrote:Some really astute observations and definitely a unique process that may unfold later next week ...

Great write up! Thanks for those links!
0 likes   
Once I see the REDS and GREENS Converge on a Base Velocity. ... I'm There!!

This is NOT an Official Forecast....Just my Opinion. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.
HIGHLIGHTS : '13 El Reno Tornado : 2013 Storm Chaser Tour, Joaquin; SC flood event, Matthew '16, Lowcountry Snow storm Jan '18

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145230
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#315 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jul 10, 2025 7:00 pm

Levi Cowan chims in.

@TropicalTidbits
Although the tropical Atlantic is quiet for now, we may need to keep a wary eye out for another "home-grown" storm near the US coastline next week.

A subtle low-level trough over the southern US is forecast to move eastward and offshore during this weekend, eventually looping back around the ridge over the gulf coast, thus potentially trapped over water for multiple days.

Simultaneously, a mid-level trough over the central Atlantic is expected to propagate westward and interact with the aforementioned area of low to mid-level vorticity pinching off southeast of the Carolinas early next week. The combined features could create a vertically deep disturbance over warm water that may have some time to develop further.

Models do not currently forecast a concrete threat, but a handful of GEFS ensemble members catch the potential for development in the Gulf. Uncertain details will ultimately determine whether this occurs, such as daytime convective modification of the initial low-level trough over the southern US, the amount of wind shear present when it emerges over water, and the amount of time ultimately spent over water.

For now, we are firmly in wait and see mode, with no credible threat to react to yet, but it's a pattern evolution worth monitoring over the next several days.


 https://x.com/TropicalTidbits/status/1943384340953731483

8 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here

BobHarlem
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2090
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:11 pm

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#316 Postby BobHarlem » Fri Jul 11, 2025 2:30 pm

That gulf area isn't really on the 12z euro ensembles, but the GFS ensembles a lot more active there.
Image
2 likes   

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#317 Postby Stratton23 » Fri Jul 11, 2025 3:51 pm

12z UKMET shows some development near the texas/lousiana border fwiw
0 likes   

Tailgater33
Tropical Depression
Tropical Depression
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:15 am

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#318 Postby Tailgater33 » Fri Jul 11, 2025 6:10 pm

Probably gonna get a lemon in a day or 2 over the NE gulf, with most of the globals hinting at a weak surface feature.
1 likes   

Stratton23
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2504
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:59 pm
Location: Katy, Tx

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#319 Postby Stratton23 » Sat Jul 12, 2025 2:30 am

Euro AIFS ensembles 00z is actually really aggressive with development
0 likes   

Pas_Bon
Tropical Depression
Tropical Depression
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:25 pm
Location: League City, TX

Re: 2025 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out thru day 16)

#320 Postby Pas_Bon » Sat Jul 12, 2025 3:29 am

Stratton23 wrote:Euro AIFS ensembles 00z is actually really aggressive with development


The way things are trending, I’d be surprised if this is a nothing-burger.
I have a sinking feeling the Northern Gulf Coast/SE Texas coast will be dealing with a landfalling system next weekend.
0 likes   


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests