Dr. Lyons leaves TWC / Dr Richard Knabb new tropical OCM

[Chacor]

I don't care much for the politics of a channel I don't get, but Knabb leaving his pretty cushy job at the CPHC is surprising. He was director of operations at the CPHC, if I recall correctly, below only the director of the Pacific Regional HQ.

[StormClouds63]

In 1969, the name "Carol" was originally part of the list of Atlantic hurricane names. Look in an old almanac for that year, and you might find it listed. However, the name Carol was retired (1954 storm), and Hope came up his daughter's first name as a replacement. The rest is history.

It was a graduation gift for her.

Can you all point me to references for the above information? This is fascinating to me as a name expert but I'd like absolute confirmation that it's not an urban legend before I use it in something I write.

This is a legitimate story.

The decision to retire the name "Carol" must have happened just prior to the 1969 hurricane season. I have a 1969 Readers Digest Almanac, and in the list of names for 1969 Atlantic hurricanes, the name "Carol" appears.

It's a great bit of trivia, and, unlike the Richileu Apartments "hurricane party" story, is true.

The 1969 season is full of irony. The storm following Camille was Hurricane Debbie. On the heels of one of the worst storms in history came the biggest success of the Project Stormfury era. Unfortunately, when Director Bob Simpson needed planes and crews to fly into Camille, many were assigned to Hurricane Debbie and the "seeding" experiments. Some of the crews flying in older planes were never able to penetrate the eye of Camille, and had to estimate wind speeds. The actual sustained wind speed at landfall also remains a controversial topic.

[Cleveland Kent Evans]

From Wikipedia Source of Hurricane Camille's Name

Source of Camille name on hurricane naming list

In 1969, Hope's daughter graduated from high school, so he added her name to the list of names to be used for hurricanes that year (at that time, there was no organized list of assigned names to be used, the only requirements were that the names had to be female – male names were not used at that time – in alphabetical order, and not otherwise retired). He had no way of knowing at the time that the storm that would take his daughter's name – Camille – would become one of the most powerful and destructive hurricanes to ever hit the United States when it slammed into Mississippi as a Category five hurricane. His daughter Camille is married to U.S. Congressman Jim Marshall of Georgia.

Thanks, but unfortunately the Wikipedia article's source for that is a page about John Hope's biography on a website about "North Georgia", which itself gives no references and doesn't even have a listed author. I'm looking for something which could be used as a legitimate academic reference in a paper or presentation on naming, and neither Wikipedia nor that North Georgia site qualify as legitimate references, I'm afraid.

[OuterBanker]

Almost sounds like the Fleming - Churchill story.

Submitted to snopes, will see if I get a reply.

[Frank2]

Sorry to hear about Dr. Lyons, though one poster said he was not happy with the changes at TWC (now NBC's weather channel) - I'd have to agree with Dr. Lyons, and at his age he might be wanting additional years in Federal service before retiring, so the move for him shouldn't be considered a bad thing...

As for Dr. Knabb, I've been searching for his photo but can't find one, so perhaps someone can post his mug (lol) here...

His former position at the CPHC might have been a "cushy" job, though as we know the CPAC doesn't have the activity the Atlantic side can sometimes have, so he's of better use at TWC in the event that we get another 2004 or 2005 season at some time in the future...

As for any of these folks returing to the NHC - when at the old facility the Miami of that time was a much different place than the Dade County of today, so for many an opportunity to work at today's NHC might not be as easily considered as was the case at the old facility 25, 30 or even 40 years ago (when they were still on the UM Campus), since the commute to today's NHC (on the FIU campus) is terrible at best and the overall "climate" not conducive for someone with a family to raise - sad but true, so also understandable about Dr. Lyons going to a much smaller community - I'd do the same...

Frank

[tina25]

Senior hurricane specialist Richard Knabb emphasizes the size of Hurricane Ike and its probable impacts on a large area of the Texas coast during a broadcast interview Saturday, Sept. 13, 2008, from the National Hurricane Center in Miami. Forecasters project the center of Ike to come ashore at or near Galveston, Texas, early Saturday.

[jinftl]

Not to turn this thread into my hommage to Dr. John Hope, but this is a clip that is amazing to watch...John Hope at his best…hosting a q&a call-in program he hosted 22 years ago for Hurricane Gilbert, and most of what he is saying still would be relevant in 2010. His understanding of the science….and an his explanation of the risk that storms could bring to the coast…bears repeating as we approach a new season. It is not at all ‘out of date’.

Kind of haunting to know these were his words in 1988….pre-Hugo, pre-Andrew, pre-Mitch, pre-Katrina, pre-Wilma, pre-Ike, etc…in some ways, this is one of the earliest instances of a hurricane being more than just a local news event….no matter where the storm was going, this was the broadcast the entire nation was seeing. And as you hear from the callers, they were calling in with questions from all over the u.s., not just in Gilbert's potential reach.

Dr. Lyons was good....but there hasn't been anyone to rival John Hope in my opinion as far as on-camera experts...and there may never be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UINN2Yxn4j8we

John Hope was the best, no question. Hope was real "old-school" and I mean that in a very positive way. Lyons was good as well, but the "surfing" references got old real quick. Nonetheless, he was the only reason to watch the tropical updates during hurricane season. First, it was "Storm Stories" and now they're showing movies as well?

In 1969, the name "Carol" was originally part of the list of Atlantic hurricane names. Look in an old almanac for that year, and you might find it listed. However, the name Carol was retired (1954 storm), and Hope came up his daughter's first name as a replacement. The rest is history.

[Derek Ortt]

I have to VERY STRONGLY disagree with the comments that Steve Lyons was not as good as John Hope

Some here are holding on to the past a bit too long. Lyons has a tremendous depth of knowledge on TCs and he conveyed the message in a manner that was easy to understand by all

[hurricanetrack]

I really liked the fact that Lyons and TWC developed that impact scale graphic for the different hazards. That was really a great leap and an obvious easy way to explain to lay people what the effects will be from wind, waves, surge, rain, etc. So that when a weak storm that was moving slow came along, rain was the high impact part of the graphic and so on. That was very forward-thinking of both parties and I hope it continues with Dr. Knabb.

[jinftl]

Point taken. No question in anyone's mind about Dr. Lyon's knowledge, understanding, and leadership role over the last several years. Maybe it is just an intangible quality that makes me marvel at past footage with John Hope. It very well may have to do with nothing concrete that makes him 'better' than Dr. Lyons....for me, there was just something very comforting and reassuring in a grandfatherly way with John Hope...as long as we listened to what he was telling us, we could make it through any storm.

Maybe it also has something to do with what I perceive as a change in the format of the tropical reporting and forecasting on TWC over the years. There are more reporters on the scene now....and that is what gets the ratings more than a nuts and bolts lecture against the backdrop of a map. I have to wonder what role John Hope would have played in seasons like 2004. 2005, and 2008, when there was more live reporting...and wondering if Jeff Morrow would get blown away or hit with debris....and maybe less time for forecasting and analysis. No less in terms of content or necessary info, just maybe it is delivered in a more consise way because there are 4 reporters on split screen waiting to deliver the 'money shots'.

I have to VERY STRONGLY disagree with the comments that Steve Lyons was not as good as John Hope

Some here are holding on to the past a bit too long. Lyons has a tremendous depth of knowledge on TCs and he conveyed the message in a manner that was easy to understand by all

[brunota2003]

Can you all point me to references for the above information? This is fascinating to me as a name expert but I'd like absolute confirmation that it's not an urban legend before I use it in something I write.

Is this one better?

But ... now it's trivia time: did you know that Hurricane Camille was named after John Hope's daughter? Some of you did, as that story has been circulating on the web for awhile. However, the notion that it was John's idea is a myth that turns out to be untrue! As Moment #63 (about the naming of hurricanes) indicated, it was actually a colleague who made the suggestion.

Here's the scoop straight from Joe Hope, one of John's other children:


"My sister, Camille, was a very precocious student, being involved with college courses even while in high school. She was in a science course that for a time involved her working on a project at the Hurricane Center. Her supervisor was Banner Miller, a colleague of Dad's.

"When Cleo, the name of the hurricane that hit Florida in 1964, was being retired, Banner Miller suggested the name Camille be added to the list as the replacement name for Cleo. Dad had nothing to do with it other than not disagreeing. I recall that this was a very exciting development around our house many years before the legendary storm ever formed.

"Dad did not orchestrate this event. He would say today what he said when he was alive: there are people who know the facts, and the truth should not be misrepresented."

Source: http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_12424.html

[Frank2]

I'd have to agree with Derek Ott - sure we all liked John Hope (he was also very patient and a good person to work for), and for the fact that he was one of TWC's "originals", but the fact is that Steve Lyons was also very good in that same job, though their delivery style is (was) much different, and perhaps that's what people notice...

It's funny how that works - many were greatful for Brian Norcross being the person of delivery (in the Miami area) during Hurricane Andrew, though being just outside that area during landfall I listened to Dr. Robert (Bob) Sheets (then NHC Director), and his assurance to CNN that the building did not fall down (per one of the wire services) was very comforting to me when he explained the entire scenairo ("We had a gust to 152 (knots)..."), in the same way John Hope would always do during a research presentation (Dr. Sheets holding the record at that time for most eyewall penetrations), so how the audience reacts often does depend on who's doing the talking (and is one reason I would have never made it as a TV weather person - LOL)...

After thinking about the departure of Dr. Lyon's, I do believe he's doing the right thing, since staying with TWC/NBC meant that he could lose his job suddenly and without notice - that's television for you, so to leave crowded Atlanta and the very competitive (and crazy) world of mass-media for an NWS MIC position in a small community sounds pretty nice to me - hopefully he'll keep in touch - perhaps here even...

Frank

P.S. Yipes 152 knots = 175 mph (that'd make any 12-story building shake)!!!

[Steve H.]

If you have to watch the weather channel to get your data and analysis, why are you folks posting here? TWC is for gardeners and fall foliage novices. I stopped watching TWC back in '87. Please don't lower yourself to their standards. John Hope was the last decent forecaster for the tropics that they had. TWC is for those that are either bored or have too much time on their hands. Any meteorologist worth their salt would not even acknowledge their opinions. They are nothing more than Pop weathermen. Never understood why serious weather enthusiasts would even turn to that channel.

[Cleveland Kent Evans]

Is this one better?

Here's the scoop straight from Joe Hope, one of John's other children:


"My sister, Camille, was a very precocious student, being involved with college courses even while in high school. She was in a science course that for a time involved her working on a project at the Hurricane Center. Her supervisor was Banner Miller, a colleague of Dad's.

"When Cleo, the name of the hurricane that hit Florida in 1964, was being retired, Banner Miller suggested the name Camille be added to the list as the replacement name for Cleo. Dad had nothing to do with it other than not disagreeing. I recall that this was a very exciting development around our house many years before the legendary storm ever formed.

"Dad did not orchestrate this event. He would say today what he said when he was alive: there are people who know the facts, and the truth should not be misrepresented."

Source: http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_12424.html[/quote]

Yes, thank you very much! Not only a better source, but evidently more accurate.

[Frank2]

If you have to watch the weather channel to get your data and analysis, why are you folks posting here? TWC is for gardeners and fall foliage novices. I stopped watching TWC back in '87. Please don't lower yourself to their standards. John Hope was the last decent forecaster for the tropics that they had. TWC is for those that are either bored or have too much time on their hands. Any meteorologist worth their salt would not even acknowledge their opinions. They are nothing more than Pop weathermen. Never understood why serious weather enthusiasts would even turn to that channel.

Steve, you answered your own question (per the above underlined sentence) - that's one big reason we continued to watch TWC for so many years (John Hope passing away in 2002), though I don't agree that TWC was just for "gadners" (as Maj. Winchester would say on MASH) - note that I say "was", since I'd have to agree that today's TWC is awful, and a sad thing that a very good 24-hour weather channel has deteriorated into what it has become - but so has the rest of television media...

Look at Food Network - they used to be known as the friendly "learn how to cook" channel, but 75% of their programming is now focused on worthless reality-type "angry chef" programming, so...

I recall TWC's first year or so, when at least several of the on-air OCM's were OCM's - former NWS forecasters who had come over from NWS offices or from the PBS/NOAA production of "AM Weather" (which ran Monday-Friday mornings):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.M._Weather

and that included John Hope, who left us (NHC) in 1982 to work for TWC (I was a young squirt who at times assisted John Hope (or at least gave him a headache) during his last 6-12 months at the NHC).

Personally, I thought TWC's format was "hanging in there" until about 10 years ago (2000) when the changes began to increase - and their hiring practices began to decrease (pertaining to hiring "OCM's" who seemed to not be "weather people" at all but did seem to have very large egos), and that continues to the present moment...

It's discouraging or encouraging (depending on how you look at it) to see some of the long-time OCM's (Vivian, Bill, Jim, etc.) still working there despite the many changes, no doubt hoping to stay employed with TWC as long as possible, but their profession is so competitive that they know, per the Food Network reality show, they can be "chopped" at a moment's notice - as was the case with Cheryl Lemke, who was dismissed after many years of loyal service...

As for "too much time" - well, you might be right, though some here are single folks and some are married folks, and though I do have other important interests outside weather, it's still nice to be able to turn on a channel that at least tries to talk about the weather (lol)...

Frank

[Evil Jeremy]

Steve Lyons was fantastic on TWC, an excellent successor to Dr. Hope. However, it is clear that the Hope era of TWC was much better than Lyon's era.

I remember when I could turn on the TV at :20 past the hour, any hour of any day, and know I would see the forecast for the next 7 days for the lower 48. The channel followed a formula, but it was a formula that worked very well. Then NBC bought the network, and things went downhill fast. I am sure that "Abrams and Bettis" are great forecasters. However, the TWC should be about the weather, not the names and stars. Wake Up With Al has a chunk of variety stuff I can pick up on another network.

Dr. Knabb, good luck at the TWC. I don't know if you have actually started there yet, but you are already the best thing about the sinking ship.

[pepeavilenho]

''If It looks like an hurricane, it probably is, despite its environment and unusual location''

forecaster Knabb, 11, october, 2005



nice chat guys!

[attallaman]

On air met at TWC Heather Tesch posted comments on her Facebook page about the new hurricane expert on TWC but when others followed by asking her questions about Dr. Lyons she avoided the issue. Is it just me or has TWC become more of an entertainment channel since they were bought by NBC? TWC is now running more episodes of Storm Stories, there is now Movie Nights, what's next? Several good mets on TWC were fired once NBC bought TWC. Heather Tesch's Facebook page has a lot of comments about TWC since it was purchased by NBC, most of the comments are not good. I for one turn to TWC for weather information, not to watch a movie and have some popcorn with Jill Carfagno on Movie Night.

[lonelymike]

Sad to hear Dr. Lyons has left. He was really the only reason to watch TWC.

[ConvergenceZone]

I enjoyed watching Steve Lyons.

Dr Lyons probably took one look at this year's hurricane forecast
and said, "Holy crap, I'm outta here!"....


Cantore is still my favorite at TWC...Next to John Hope, I've never seen an on camera met have as much passion about weather as he does,
and it truly shows, you just can't fake that.