A question about New Orleans...

[Ptarmigan]

The bigger issue with New Orleans is the diappearing wetlands in Louisiana. Something really needs to be done about it. In some ways, New Orleans maybe better off without floodwalls, since they failed during Katrina. If they rebuild the levees, they better be built well. Also, why is MRGO still there. No one really uses it. It's wasting money to be dredged. MRGO was the reason why New Orleans and St. Bernard flooded.

[hial2]

[quote="Steve"
Maybe the next time some city gets nuked, they won't rebuild it because we didn't have star wars properly operational? Maybe, maybe not
Steve[/quote]

If ANY city gets nuked,rebuilding would be the last thing they'd have to worry about!..(I understand your point)

[stormcrow]

Without dealing with the MRGO and the disappearing wetlands, New Orleans is fated to suffer the same fate again.

[skysummit]

Without dealing with the MRGO and the disappearing wetlands, New Orleans is fated to suffer the same fate again.

If you're taking two of the top reasons out, do you have anything to back up your belief?

[TS Zack]

Unless you live here you don't understand...

When they say we're sinking, it doesn't mean were going underwater tomorrow. We sink like a centimeter every 100yrs. We are not below sea level either. One portion of the entire metropolitan area is below sea level, but we are close to 3+ft above sea level in many other places.

Also, New Orleans is not just New Orleans. I live in New Orleans, I didn't flood. Southeast Louisiana has numerous places to live that never will flood. Threads like these show how the media doesn't tell a true story.

Why didn't the flood in New Orleans on May 4th make headline news???

[gboudx]

.....
So I'm just going to stop here and not fight with anyone. I understand that some people are simply hypersensitive (reference PM and bolded preppy comment; yeah I'm a white guy too and pretty anti-PC) and that is a reflection of a politically correct assault and the wussification of America. I understand that there might be questions, but seriously, by May 2007, the question of why rebuild New Orleans has been asked ad nauseum including on this forum. Some people just don't want to understand, troll forums or whatever. But the truth is out there for anyone who really cares.

Steve

Very well put Steve. It's obvious that you did your research before posting, as usual.

As for the emotion, I don't see how a thread can be started questioning why rebuild New Orleans and emotion not become a part of it.

[vbhoutex]

.....
So I'm just going to stop here and not fight with anyone. I understand that some people are simply hypersensitive (reference PM and bolded preppy comment; yeah I'm a white guy too and pretty anti-PC) and that is a reflection of a politically correct assault and the wussification of America. I understand that there might be questions, but seriously, by May 2007, the question of why rebuild New Orleans has been asked ad nauseum including on this forum. Some people just don't want to understand, troll forums or whatever. But the truth is out there for anyone who really cares.

Steve

Very well put Steve. It's obvious that you did your research before posting, as usual.

As for the emotion, I don't see how a thread can be started questioning why rebuild New Orleans and emotion not become a part of it.

When I say that I mean leave the name calling etc. at home. Of course emotions are involved in almost any post we make, but don't let your sensitivities(we all have them) get in the way of posting a good discussion. I know it is difficult for many who have had their lives changed forever, but it is somewhat necessary to keep these discussions civil. I can tell you on a personal level as an administrator of this site that I must leave my "sensitivities" out of it or I would have to ban my self quite often. Now, back to the discussion at hand.

[prettywitty]

One thing you all seem to forget is that Katrina did very little damage to the city itself. The weak levee system gave way and innundated the city with salt water out of Lake Pontchartrain.

Thank you! It's so easy for people to make these simplistic black and white judgments without taking into consideration all the aspects of such a complex issue.

[AnnularCane]

And I suspect the levee system is still weak, no matter what they say. There have even been reports of leaks recently.

[KWT]

Unless you live here you don't understand...

When they say we're sinking, it doesn't mean were going underwater tomorrow. We sink like a centimeter every 100yrs. We are not below sea level either. One portion of the entire metropolitan area is below sea level, but we are close to 3+ft above sea level in many other places.

Yep your right, some of NO is a little above sea level, though the extra 3-5ft won't make much difference really in a strong storm (though of course you could say that for anywhere)

The sinking is a good deal more rapid then you wsuggest mind you, its currently abouit an inch a year, then you've got sea levels rising and as the arctic and Anarctic slowly shrink in size the rate of sea rise will only increase, then you also got the coastal marshes seemingly eroding, for lack of a better word and all those factors means New Orleans is a risk.

No reason to give up on New Orleans, coastal marches must be restored somehow, levees must be built far stronger and taller and houses should be raised. Finally I think the preperation procedures have to be reveiwed, a lot of people will have died not during the hurricane itself but in the 24-36hrs following.

[HollynLA]

New Orleans is sinking at a much faster rate than 1 cm per century, take a look at this article by National Geographic
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:TU ... cd=8&gl=us

Also, while there are portions of the city above sea level, there are still much of it below sea level, 11 feet below sea level in some areas.

It's a tough situation and if nothing is done soon, it may be too late.

[TSmith274]

And I suspect the levee system is still weak, no matter what they say. There have even been reports of leaks recently.

This is true. According to a National Geographic story last week, the brand new T-wall at the Industrial Canal is indeed leaking from below. This is the wall that wiped out the 9th Ward and flooded much of St. Bernard. Investigations have shown that the sheet piling below this new wall is STILL only 18-20 feet deep. It needs to be 40-60 feet deep. So, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had a chance to build the new wall from the ground up... taking into account the lessons learned from the numerous failures that occured after Katrina. They still screwed it up.

I guess what I'm getting at is that New Orleans is victim of horrendous engineering flaws at the hands of this federal agency... the U.S. Army Corps. And it continues to this day. Problem is, they are attempting to hide their faults from the U.S. taxpayer. People from coast to coast should be outraged about this. Only then can New Orleans take the first steps to full protection from storms. But a state and city as small and politically powerless as New Orleans and Louisiana are, respectively... cannot force the needed changes within the Corps. It will take taxpayers from all over this country demanding results. That hasn't happened yet. I thought Katrina would do it, but the more time that passes, I'm starting to believe it will have to happen again before New Orleans gets agequate protection. Problem is, it will be too late.

[BigO]

And I suspect the levee system is still weak, no matter what they say. There have even been reports of leaks recently.

This is true. According to a National Geographic story last week, the brand new T-wall at the Industrial Canal is indeed leaking from below. This is the wall that wiped out the 9th Ward and flooded much of St. Bernard. Investigations have shown that the sheet piling below this new wall is STILL only 18-20 feet deep. It needs to be 40-60 feet deep. So, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had a chance to build the new wall from the ground up... taking into account the lessons learned from the numerous failures that occured after Katrina. They still screwed it up.

I guess what I'm getting at is that New Orleans is victim of horrendous engineering flaws at the hands of this federal agency... the U.S. Army Corps. And it continues to this day. Problem is, they are attempting to hide their faults from the U.S. taxpayer. People from coast to coast should be outraged about this. Only then can New Orleans take the first steps to full protection from storms. But a state and city as small and politically powerless as New Orleans and Louisiana are, respectively... cannot force the needed changes within the Corps. It will take taxpayers from all over this country demanding results. That hasn't happened yet. I thought Katrina would do it, but the more time that passes, I'm starting to believe it will have to happen again before New Orleans gets agequate protection. Problem is, it will be too late.

Well, if the class-action suit that a bunch of us have filed is judged in our favor (it has already cleared the hurdle of being allowed to proceed...the government can only be sued if it consents to be sued), it will put enough daylight on the problems and perhaps enough of a penalty on them that they might well re-tool their operations. My family's in for $5M by ourselves. The city filed for another $700M, iIrc.

[Ptarmigan]

If you're taking two of the top reasons out, do you have anything to back up your belief?

MRGO is rarely used. MRGO was the reason why Betsy flooded New Orleans in 1965.

[skysummit]

If you're taking two of the top reasons out, do you have anything to back up your belief?

MRGO is rarely used. MRGO was the reason why Betsy flooded New Orleans in 1965.

EXACTLY my point

[hial2]

OK, I have to ask...What is MRGO??????

[BigO]

The Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet. It is a deep-water channel that was designed to make the Port of New Orleans more accessible to deep-water vessels and constructed in the late 50s-early 60s (opened up in 1963 but was declared finished in 1965). It forms an almost perfect east-west funnel for storm surge to overtop the levees in St. Bernard Parish as well as the Lower 9th (it feeds directly into the Industiral Canal that connects Pontchartrain with the river). It isn't used much for shipping anymore, but poses a direct threat to some of the most vulnerable real estate in the city.

MRGO (Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet) is frequently referred to as "Mister GO" locally. Any cost-benefit analysis would show it as a liability. The Army Corps still maintains its viability and continues to dredge it out despite the dangers it poses. There's no telling how many square miles of wetlands it is responsible for destroying for such little commercial benefit.

[canetracker]

Unless you live here you don't understand...

When they say we're sinking, it doesn't mean were going underwater tomorrow. We sink like a centimeter every 100yrs. We are not below sea level either. One portion of the entire metropolitan area is below sea level, but we are close to 3+ft above sea level in many other places.

Also, New Orleans is not just New Orleans. I live in New Orleans, I didn't flood. Southeast Louisiana has numerous places to live that never will flood. Threads like these show how the media doesn't tell a true story.

Why didn't the flood in New Orleans on May 4th make headline news???

Totally agree!! Let me just add, that I am in suburbia New Orleans and ,my elevation is 11.8 feet Above Sea Level. Further, many areas of New Orleans, including the actual city, are above Sea Level.
This same argument can be applied to why should you rebuild Pensacola, who has been devastated quite a few times , or why rebuild any area on the coast for that matter.

[HollynLA]

Taken from Wikipedia regarding the city's elevations

A recent study by Tulane University notes that 51% of New Orleans is at or above sea level, with the more densely populated areas generally on higher ground. The mean (average) elevation of the city is currently between 1 and 2 feet below sea level, with some portions of the city as high as +16 feet and others as low as -10 feet.

[canetracker]

Taken from Wikipedia regarding the city's elevations

A recent study by Tulane University notes that 51% of New Orleans is at or above sea level, with the more densely populated areas generally on higher ground. The mean (average) elevation of the city is currently between 1 and 2 feet below sea level, with some portions of the city as high as +16 feet and others as low as -10 feet.

I was looking for this article as you posted. Thanks for posting this HollynLA.