2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#441 Postby wxman57 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:01 am

SFLcane wrote:
wxman57 wrote:New IRI/CPC Nino 3.4 forecast for April is out. All models shifted significantly cooler for peak season (La Nina):

https://iri.columbia.edu/our-expertise/climate/forecasts/enso/current/?enso_tab=enso-sst_table


Any adjustments to your seasonal numbers?


The 8-9 hurricanes and 4 majors look okay, but named storms may be 22-23. NHC names so many short-lived weak storms these days. Have to multiple the hurricanes by about 2.8 instead of the "old" 2 to get total named storms.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#442 Postby cycloneye » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:28 am

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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#443 Postby skyline385 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:51 am


Was just going to post that as well. Such a crazy stat.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#444 Postby AlphaToOmega » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:06 am

Looking at the models and analogs, there are two seasons that seem like good steering analogs for 2022: 2005 and 2020. These two seasons both had the same SSTA pattern, had impacts in similar places (Louisiana and Central America), and had similar progressions. Looking at the ECMWF Z500 forecast, which actually verifies quite well for a field with very low skill, the pressure pattern for 2022 looks quite similar to that of 2005 and 2020 combined. In fact, the patterns are nearly identical: high pressure over NPac, low pressure over SPac, low pressure near Perth, high pressure over New Foundland, high pressure over European Russia, etc...

Image

Image

With this evidence, I personally do not foresee a major threat for Florida. There were 14 major hurricanes that formed during 2005 and 2020 combined, but only 2 of them (14.3%) made landfall in Florida as a major hurricane (Dennis (2005) and Wilma (2005)). However, Dennis (2005) did not make landfall in peninsular Florida, so for peninsular Florida, only Wilma (2005) counts. Based on the projected SSTA and pressure patterns, 2022 will likely see most of its major hurricane landfalls on the Gulf Coast and in Central America.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#445 Postby toad strangler » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:15 am

AlphaToOmega wrote:Looking at the models and analogs, there are two seasons that seem like good steering analogs for 2022: 2005 and 2020. These two seasons both had the same SSTA pattern, had impacts in similar places (Louisiana and Central America), and had similar progressions. Looking at the ECMWF Z500 forecast, which actually verifies quite well for a field with very low skill, the pressure pattern for 2022 looks quite similar to that of 2005 and 2020 combined. In fact, the patterns are nearly identical: high pressure over NPac, low pressure over SPac, low pressure near Perth, high pressure over New Foundland, high pressure over European Russia, etc...

https://i.postimg.cc/52Hzhfkx/ps2png-worker-commands-dbd6fcf4b-52sbv-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-Mv23r-V.png

https://i.postimg.cc/dtNdNh6H/y-Io-GSthk-Q.png

With this evidence, I personally do not foresee a major threat for Florida. There were 14 major hurricanes that formed during 2005 and 2020 combined, but only 2 of them (14.3%) made landfall in Florida as a major hurricane (Dennis (2005) and Wilma (2005)). However, Dennis (2005) did not make landfall in peninsular Florida, so for peninsular Florida, only Wilma (2005) counts. Based on the projected SSTA and pressure patterns, 2022 will likely see most of its major hurricane landfalls on the Gulf Coast and in Central America.


Good luck with your forecast, although IMO, don't think it holds any water. Individual storm steering is vastly more complex than using basin indicators four, five, and six MONTHS out from prime time activity. Yes, even if the aforementioned conditions turn out to be exact carbon copies of a previous year. Which won't happen anyway.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#446 Postby SFLcane » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:23 am

AlphaToOmega wrote:Looking at the models and analogs, there are two seasons that seem like good steering analogs for 2022: 2005 and 2020. These two seasons both had the same SSTA pattern, had impacts in similar places (Louisiana and Central America), and had similar progressions. Looking at the ECMWF Z500 forecast, which actually verifies quite well for a field with very low skill, the pressure pattern for 2022 looks quite similar to that of 2005 and 2020 combined. In fact, the patterns are nearly identical: high pressure over NPac, low pressure over SPac, low pressure near Perth, high pressure over New Foundland, high pressure over European Russia, etc...

https://i.postimg.cc/52Hzhfkx/ps2png-worker-commands-dbd6fcf4b-52sbv-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-Mv23r-V.png

https://i.postimg.cc/dtNdNh6H/y-Io-GSthk-Q.png

With this evidence, I personally do not foresee a major threat for Florida. There were 14 major hurricanes that formed during 2005 and 2020 combined, but only 2 of them (14.3%) made landfall in Florida as a major hurricane (Dennis (2005) and Wilma (2005)). However, Dennis (2005) did not make landfall in peninsular Florida, so for peninsular Florida, only Wilma (2005) counts. Based on the projected SSTA and pressure patterns, 2022 will likely see most of its major hurricane landfalls on the Gulf Coast and in Central America.


You know, your a good poster but this come on now. Trying to predict steering months ahead. :roll:
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#447 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:29 am

AlphaToOmega wrote:Looking at the models and analogs, there are two seasons that seem like good steering analogs for 2022: 2005 and 2020. These two seasons both had the same SSTA pattern, had impacts in similar places (Louisiana and Central America), and had similar progressions. Looking at the ECMWF Z500 forecast, which actually verifies quite well for a field with very low skill, the pressure pattern for 2022 looks quite similar to that of 2005 and 2020 combined. In fact, the patterns are nearly identical: high pressure over NPac, low pressure over SPac, low pressure near Perth, high pressure over New Foundland, high pressure over European Russia, etc...

https://i.postimg.cc/52Hzhfkx/ps2png-worker-commands-dbd6fcf4b-52sbv-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-Mv23r-V.png

https://i.postimg.cc/dtNdNh6H/y-Io-GSthk-Q.png

With this evidence, I personally do not foresee a major threat for Florida. There were 14 major hurricanes that formed during 2005 and 2020 combined, but only 2 of them (14.3%) made landfall in Florida as a major hurricane (Dennis (2005) and Wilma (2005)). However, Dennis (2005) did not make landfall in peninsular Florida, so for peninsular Florida, only Wilma (2005) counts. Based on the projected SSTA and pressure patterns, 2022 will likely see most of its major hurricane landfalls on the Gulf Coast and in Central America.


AlphatoOmega, I love your posts and analyses on this site, but I have to say, I am going to have to strongly disagree with you on this, not in the sense that I know for sure it will not happen, but because predicting steering currents this far out in time and then using a vague, overall analysis to conclude that that will hold for the season is not possible.

Also, I will say, even though Katrina did not hit Florida as a major hurricane, it was a bona fide Category 1 hurricane when it did, and did make landfall over the Miami suburbs. If it stalled over the Bahamas, it very well could have been a major, so stating that only Wilma counts is quite simplistic imho as it fails to take in account plausible what-if cases and ignores the idea that steering currents are volatile and unique for one individual storm.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#448 Postby Teban54 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:05 pm

AlphaToOmega wrote:Looking at the models and analogs, there are two seasons that seem like good steering analogs for 2022: 2005 and 2020. These two seasons both had the same SSTA pattern, had impacts in similar places (Louisiana and Central America), and had similar progressions. Looking at the ECMWF Z500 forecast, which actually verifies quite well for a field with very low skill, the pressure pattern for 2022 looks quite similar to that of 2005 and 2020 combined. In fact, the patterns are nearly identical: high pressure over NPac, low pressure over SPac, low pressure near Perth, high pressure over New Foundland, high pressure over European Russia, etc...

https://i.postimg.cc/52Hzhfkx/ps2png-worker-commands-dbd6fcf4b-52sbv-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-Mv23r-V.png

https://i.postimg.cc/dtNdNh6H/y-Io-GSthk-Q.png

With this evidence, I personally do not foresee a major threat for Florida. There were 14 major hurricanes that formed during 2005 and 2020 combined, but only 2 of them (14.3%) made landfall in Florida as a major hurricane (Dennis (2005) and Wilma (2005)). However, Dennis (2005) did not make landfall in peninsular Florida, so for peninsular Florida, only Wilma (2005) counts. Based on the projected SSTA and pressure patterns, 2022 will likely see most of its major hurricane landfalls on the Gulf Coast and in Central America.

Since 2020 was mentioned, I should add that early indicators in 2020 - even just one or two months before ASO - favored a west-based MDR season with a persistent Bermuda high. Instead, a well-timed weakness in the ridge (IIRC) steered almost everything OTS in September, with the exception of Sally which had non-tropical origin.

In fact, some early GFS model runs for Teddy had it become a Caribbean cruiser with a Tampa landfall, almost like the hypothetical Hurricane Phoenix.

2020 did end up as a west-based season overall, but most of the impacts were during August, October and November.

Edit: Thanks to the reminder from aspen, it was actually a typhoon-induced TUTT during September 2020 that steered everything OTS and sheared everything except Teddy.
Last edited by Teban54 on Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#449 Postby aspen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:46 pm

Teban54 wrote:
AlphaToOmega wrote:Looking at the models and analogs, there are two seasons that seem like good steering analogs for 2022: 2005 and 2020. These two seasons both had the same SSTA pattern, had impacts in similar places (Louisiana and Central America), and had similar progressions. Looking at the ECMWF Z500 forecast, which actually verifies quite well for a field with very low skill, the pressure pattern for 2022 looks quite similar to that of 2005 and 2020 combined. In fact, the patterns are nearly identical: high pressure over NPac, low pressure over SPac, low pressure near Perth, high pressure over New Foundland, high pressure over European Russia, etc...

https://i.postimg.cc/52Hzhfkx/ps2png-worker-commands-dbd6fcf4b-52sbv-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-Mv23r-V.png

https://i.postimg.cc/dtNdNh6H/y-Io-GSthk-Q.png

With this evidence, I personally do not foresee a major threat for Florida. There were 14 major hurricanes that formed during 2005 and 2020 combined, but only 2 of them (14.3%) made landfall in Florida as a major hurricane (Dennis (2005) and Wilma (2005)). However, Dennis (2005) did not make landfall in peninsular Florida, so for peninsular Florida, only Wilma (2005) counts. Based on the projected SSTA and pressure patterns, 2022 will likely see most of its major hurricane landfalls on the Gulf Coast and in Central America.

Since 2020 was mentioned, I should add that early indicators in 2020 - even just one or two months before ASO - favored a west-based MDR season with a persistent Bermuda high. Instead, a well-timed weakness in the ridge (IIRC) steered almost everything OTS in September, with the exception of Sally which had non-tropical origin.

In fact, some early GFS model runs for Teddy had it become a Caribbean cruiser with a Tampa landfall, almost like the hypothetical Hurricane Phoenix.

2020 did end up as a west-based season overall, but most of the impacts were during August, October and November.

Seems like the theme of the last few years is strong ridging present in every month except peak season, when a TUTT or something similar breaks the high and sucks everything OTS. Both Teddy and Sam (or maybe it was Larry) had multiple early GFS runs that sent them into the Lesser and Greater Antilles. Peter too, but Peter barely ended up as anything. Like what the heck was ASO 2021.

I think ridging was super high in October ‘21 and that was part of the reason for such an inactive final third of the season, along with the low ITCZ — every tropical wave was shoved into South America and failed to develop.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#450 Postby cycloneye » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:19 pm

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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#451 Postby Kingarabian » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:58 pm

EPS 46 day shows MDR trades returning for about 5 days (April25-30) before weakening them again.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#452 Postby mixedDanilo.E » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:05 pm


https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... _atl_9.png

Looks like the trades are in the southern MDR tho… the northern MDR still has strong westerlies, prob will come back down south soon afterwards.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#453 Postby mixedDanilo.E » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:13 pm

I’m lookin at the NAO around the time the trades forecast to return and the NAO is still very negative with 2 large low pressures just north of the MDR. It’s this weird ridge off east Africa that pops up maybe gets a response on the models like trades…
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#454 Postby mixedDanilo.E » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:13 pm

mixedDanilo.E wrote:I’m lookin at the NAO around the time the trades forecast to return and the NAO is still very negative with 2 large low pressures just north of the MDR. It’s this weird ridge off east Africa that pops up maybe gets a response on the models like trades…


Meant to say west African Woops.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#455 Postby Steve » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:46 pm

Good post Alpha and an interesting correlation between those pressure analogs from 2005 and 2020. I’m not inclined to join the chorus of those who don’t think you can reference the past to predict the future, because there are pros that do extremely well with explaining what a given year’s analogs mean for threat areas. I don’t necessarily agree that tracks would be the same, and no two years ever are. But it doesn’t mean that the pressure or SSTA’s or any other major or minor factor can’t yield more or less likely scenarios. For instance there are years you pretty much know the Gulf will be shut down based on x/y/x. Some years the water profiles aren’t right for an east coast hit north of 35 or 40. Some years we can well guess that the west Gulf is less likely to be a target, etc.

I’m not guessing whether you are right or wrong. We won’t know until the season is over. Ping me when you put out your post season discussion as to why you ended up right or wrong and what factors evolved that ultimately justified or changed what you thought back in April.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#456 Postby Shell Mound » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:29 am

AlphaToOmega wrote:Looking at the models and analogs, there are two seasons that seem like good steering analogs for 2022: 2005 and 2020. These two seasons both had the same SSTA pattern, had impacts in similar places (Louisiana and Central America), and had similar progressions. Looking at the ECMWF Z500 forecast, which actually verifies quite well for a field with very low skill, the pressure pattern for 2022 looks quite similar to that of 2005 and 2020 combined. In fact, the patterns are nearly identical: high pressure over NPac, low pressure over SPac, low pressure near Perth, high pressure over New Foundland, high pressure over European Russia, etc...

https://i.postimg.cc/52Hzhfkx/ps2png-worker-commands-dbd6fcf4b-52sbv-6fe5cac1a363ec1525f54343b6cc9fd8-Mv23r-V.png

https://i.postimg.cc/dtNdNh6H/y-Io-GSthk-Q.png

Image

It is interesting to see how persistent this general setup has been since 2016: note the same basic configuration and positioning of ridges over the North (+EPO)/South Pacific, eastern Canada, Iberia, and so on. Also observe the persistent Icelandic low, along with the TUTT over the central Atlantic (=sinking air/below-average precipitation near the Leeward Islands). Some of these features seem to have become semi-permanent since 2016 and have dominated the peak months of ASO. On balance the setup has supported TC clusters over the easternmost MDR and in the western Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico, likely contributing in large part to the concentration of hurricanes along the U.S. Gulf Coast since 2016 (the landfalls on the Carolinas can be attributed to the influence of the TUTT + northward displacement of ridging + development outside the MDR):

Image

By contrast, several setups that yielded significant hurricane impacts on peninsular Florida tended to exclude the TUTT from the central Atlantic, coincided with lower heights in the deep tropics, and exhibited a pronounced southwestward extension of the ridge over eastern North America, along with overall westward displacement of the features that are present in 2016–21, e.g., the trough over western North America and the Iberian ridge, the latter of which is replaced by a mid-level low or weakness:

Image

It seems that the warmer climate of recent decades, along with the subtropical warm pool off the East Coast, has contributed to the semi-permanent ridge/TUTT configuration that we have seen since 2016, and therefore has resulted in persistent “clustering” of hurricanes along the Gulf Coast, over Central America, and OTS. This kind of pattern seems to protect peninsular Florida for the most part while placing the Gulf Coast and Central America under threat, along with, to a lesser degree, the Carolinas (Outer Banks). Since 2016 the Gulf Coast has seen thirteen hurricane strikes, while peninsular Florida has seen just one and the East Coast four.

The Gulf Coast’s recent experience has mimicked that of peninsular Florida in the 1940s and that of the East Coast in the ‘50s.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#457 Postby NotSparta » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:09 am

GEFS are bringing back the trade winds for a couple days starting at the end of the month. Probably going to blunt warming from the -NAO unless they weaken a lot again after that

Image
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#458 Postby skyline385 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:24 am

NotSparta wrote:GEFS are bringing back the trade winds for a couple days starting at the end of the month. Probably going to blunt warming from the -NAO unless they weaken a lot again after that

Image

Correct me if i am wrong but most of those trade winds coming back look to be in the subtropics and the Caribbean.
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#459 Postby NotSparta » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:30 am

skyline385 wrote:
NotSparta wrote:GEFS are bringing back the trade winds for a couple days starting at the end of the month. Probably going to blunt warming from the -NAO unless they weaken a lot again after that

https://i.imgur.com/zy26NqH.png

Correct me if i am wrong but most of those trade winds coming back look to be in the subtropics and the Caribbean.


Blue is more easterly than normal which in this case is stronger trade winds in the tropics
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Re: 2022 indicators: SSTs / SAL / MSLP / shear / steering / instability / images

#460 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:00 am

NotSparta wrote:GEFS are bringing back the trade winds for a couple days starting at the end of the month. Probably going to blunt warming from the -NAO unless they weaken a lot again after that

https://i.imgur.com/zy26NqH.png

We'll have to see how long it lasts if it verifies; if it's only for a brief while then I guess any sort of pause/reversal of the current -NAO warmup wouldn't be as great as, say, the month+ long belt of stronger trades that came with the persistent +NAO throughout March and earlier this month. But we'll see, if the burst is particularly strong then length would be less of a mitigating factor I'd imagine.
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