2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23499
Age: 46
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#461 Postby gatorcane » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:02 pm

Might be an indicator of a more active Atlantic season than we have seen in awhile in that the GFS is showing higher shear anomalies over the East EPAC in the medium to long-range with below normal shear across the Caribbean. It could be ephemeral but this time of year we would expect lower shear across across the Eastern EPAC.
0 likes   

User avatar
TheAustinMan
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1016
Age: 24
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:26 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#462 Postby TheAustinMan » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:20 pm

RAMMB/SSD's instability archives haven't been updating past 2013, so I browsed around for instability charts people happened to save on forums, blogs, and etc. and found enough early season material to stitch together a graph of 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017's tropical Atlantic instability. Unfortunately the other graphs aren't posted as often so I probably can't stitch together a similar quantity of data for other regions or tropical cyclone formation potential variables like wind shear or cold water vapor areal coverage.
Image
0 likes   
ImageImageImage
Treat my opinions with a grain of salt. For official information see your local weather service.

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 139724
Age: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#463 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:27 pm

2 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here

User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23499
Age: 46
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#464 Postby gatorcane » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:23 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:Tropical Tidbits own Levi Cowan and his 2017 Atlantic Hurricane Season Outlook.

http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/blog/2017/06/02/outlook-for-the-2017-atlantic-hurricane-season/

https://youtu.be/H3FxehVzRAc


Good video as always from Levi. One thing I disagree with him on is the warmer SST anomalies in the subtropical Western Atlantic off the United States potentially disrupting upward motion and hurricane activity across the MDR. He points out 2013 but the inactivity that year was due to above normal amounts of dry mid-level air across the Atlantic more than anything else. Also just take a look at the warmer subtropical anomalies in 2004 during the peak of that highly active MDR season which had no negative impact and compare to what we have now. If we go by SST anomalies, this screams active MDR season assuming no major SST anomaly config changes between now and the peak:

Image
Image
1 likes   

User avatar
TheStormExpert
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8487
Age: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:38 pm
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#465 Postby TheStormExpert » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:38 pm

gatorcane wrote:
TheStormExpert wrote:Tropical Tidbits own Levi Cowan and his 2017 Atlantic Hurricane Season Outlook.

http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/blog/2017/06/02/outlook-for-the-2017-atlantic-hurricane-season/

https://youtu.be/H3FxehVzRAc


Good video as always from Levi. One thing I disagree with him on is the warmer SST anomalies in the subtropical Western Atlantic off the United States potentially disrupting upward motion and hurricane activity across the MDR. He points out 2013 but the inactivity that year was due to above normal amounts of dry mid-level air across the Atlantic more than anything else. Also just take a look at the warmer subtropical anomalies in 2004 during the peak of that highly active MDR season which had no negative impact and compare to what we have now. If we go by SST anomalies, this screams active MDR season assuming no major SST anomaly config changes between now and the peak:

Image
Image

The one big difference I'm seeing is the colder patch of SST's in the mid-latitudes which could help keep the Bermuda High weak to nonexistent.

OFF TOPIC: Look at how you can see the cool patches of SST's just north and east of the Eastern Caribbean in the 2004 map due to Hurricane Frances going over that area.
1 likes   
The following post is NOT an official forecast and should not be used as such. It is just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is NOT endorsed by storm2k.org.

User avatar
chaser1
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 4758
Age: 63
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Longwood, Fl

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#466 Postby chaser1 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:31 am

TheStormExpert wrote:
gatorcane wrote:
TheStormExpert wrote:Tropical Tidbits own Levi Cowan and his 2017 Atlantic Hurricane Season Outlook.

http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/blog/2017/06/02/outlook-for-the-2017-atlantic-hurricane-season/

https://youtu.be/H3FxehVzRAc


Good video as always from Levi. One thing I disagree with him on is the warmer SST anomalies in the subtropical Western Atlantic off the United States potentially disrupting upward motion and hurricane activity across the MDR. He points out 2013 but the inactivity that year was due to above normal amounts of dry mid-level air across the Atlantic more than anything else. Also just take a look at the warmer subtropical anomalies in 2004 during the peak of that highly active MDR season which had no negative impact and compare to what we have now. If we go by SST anomalies, this screams active MDR season assuming no major SST anomaly config changes between now and the peak:

Image
Image

The one big difference I'm seeing is the colder patch of SST's in the mid-latitudes which could help keep the Bermuda High weak to nonexistent.


That's an interesting point to debate. Assuming that Atlantic SST anomalies go largely unchanged, the result would clearly seem to indicate the majority of developing East & Central Atlantic T.S. and hurricanes would generally recurve well east of the Conus. If that verified the result would seem to diminish the U.S. East coast and Canadian Maritimes threat somewhat, and perhaps even more profoundly lessen the risk to a large portion of the Caribbean basin.

IMO though, I'm not seeing those cold N. Atlantic anomalies to "cause" a weaker Bermuda high especially to the extent where it alone would establish the overall longeave pattern. Possibly a contributing factor to a temporary erosion of a already marginal mid level heights if that were the case. I'm more apt to think that present cold N. Atlantic SST anomolies are more the "result of" the past and recent circulation and as such, a result of the past and recent long wave pattern.

Its hard for me to quite guess how strong the N. Atlantic ridging will be this year or for that matter how far west and south it will be oriented. I do think however, that we might see anomalous strong ridging across a large portion of the sub-tropics and reaching westward to at least 70W-80W, along with overall ridging over portions of the S.E. Conus and often extending south & east to Florida. Two results of what i'm guessing will occur will be the gradual warming of N. Atlantic SST's that will approach near normal by late Summer, and deep troughing off the Northerm & Western Africa coast. If the very warm SST's continue to persist (or even expand) in the far East Atlantic and just off the Aftican coast, we may once again see some pretty well developed lows emerge off the coast and immediately begin to organize and quickly pulled more homeward. At least that's what I'd suspect assuming some abrupt weakness in the Easterlies (and at what latitude the ITCZ or any monsoonal low will be at.
0 likes   
Personal Forecast Disclaimer:
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.



AutoPenalti
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3950
Age: 27
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#467 Postby AutoPenalti » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:29 am

Hammy wrote:Atlantic instability looks like it's about to level off again and go below normal.

Which means?
0 likes   
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the NHC and NWS.


Model Runs Cheat Sheet:
GFS (5:30 AM/PM, 11:30 AM/PM)
HWRF, GFDL, UKMET, NAVGEM (6:30-8:00 AM/PM, 12:30-2:00 AM/PM)
ECMWF (1:45 AM/PM)

TCVN
is a weighted averaged

User avatar
Kazmit
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1915
Age: 21
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:49 am
Location: Williamsburg VA for college, Bermuda otherwise

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#468 Postby Kazmit » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:30 am

AutoPenalti wrote:
Hammy wrote:Atlantic instability looks like it's about to level off again and go below normal.

Which means?

Generally,
More instability = more activity
Less instability = less activity
1 likes   
Igor 2010, Sandy 2012, Fay 2014, Gonzalo 2014, Joaquin 2015, Nicole 2016, Humberto 2019

I am only a tropical weather enthusiast. My predictions are not official and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

tolakram
Admin
Admin
Posts: 19184
Age: 61
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Florence, KY (name is Mark)

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#469 Postby tolakram » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:02 am

Instability also tends to be a lagging indicator. More storms, more instability.

If you didn't know anything about the Gulf in 2005 except this chart, was this a big season?
Image

Tropical Atlantic instability in 2006. Big season?
Image
0 likes   
M a r k
- - - - -
Join us in chat: Storm2K Chatroom Invite. Android and IOS apps also available.

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. Posts are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K.org. For official information and forecasts, please refer to NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
TheStormExpert
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8487
Age: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:38 pm
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#470 Postby TheStormExpert » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:55 am

1 likes   
The following post is NOT an official forecast and should not be used as such. It is just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is NOT endorsed by storm2k.org.

AutoPenalti
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3950
Age: 27
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#471 Postby AutoPenalti » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:24 pm

Wind Shear maps aren't available right now but it doesn't really take that to know that it is unfavorable right now at mid-level and upper-level for any sort of TC genesis.

Image
1 likes   
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the NHC and NWS.


Model Runs Cheat Sheet:
GFS (5:30 AM/PM, 11:30 AM/PM)
HWRF, GFDL, UKMET, NAVGEM (6:30-8:00 AM/PM, 12:30-2:00 AM/PM)
ECMWF (1:45 AM/PM)

TCVN
is a weighted averaged

User avatar
ScottNAtlanta
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 3:11 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#472 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:17 pm

I was under the impression that the cooler water would increase the likelihood of a stronger high pressure while increasing the lower pressure in the MDR. Warm Oceans imply warmed or rising air when you have a cooler source region adjacent which would imply cooler or sinking air. The last several seasons there really wasnt much contrast thus you had high pressure throughout. I would infer from this a stronger High in the subtropical regions where the water is anomalously cooler. Also the cooler than normal water off the Mexican coast will also have more sinking air this year than the last couple of years.
0 likes   
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
weathaguyry
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1272
Age: 21
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:16 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#473 Postby weathaguyry » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:48 pm

0 likes   
My posts are only my opinions and NOT official forecasts. For official forecasts, consult the National Hurricane Center or the National Weather Service.

Irene 11', Sandy 12', Fay 20’, Isaias 20’, Elsa 21’, Henri 21’, Ida 21’

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 139724
Age: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#474 Postby cycloneye » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:01 am

Very warm anomalies in West Atlantic that may rob some energy from MDR according to what Levi discussed in his recent video.
Image
0 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here

Ntxw
Storm2k Moderator
Storm2k Moderator
Posts: 21565
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:34 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#475 Postby Ntxw » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:08 am

ScottNAtlanta wrote:I was under the impression that the cooler water would increase the likelihood of a stronger high pressure while increasing the lower pressure in the MDR. Warm Oceans imply warmed or rising air when you have a cooler source region adjacent which would imply cooler or sinking air. The last several seasons there really wasnt much contrast thus you had high pressure throughout. I would infer from this a stronger High in the subtropical regions where the water is anomalously cooler. Also the cooler than normal water off the Mexican coast will also have more sinking air this year than the last couple of years.


I don't know about the tropics but in the subtropics and extratropics cooler waters mean lower than normal pressures. This is due to the storms (lower pressures) up-welling the water from beneath. High pressures is sinking air that prevents systems thus no up-welling meanwhile sunshine warms up the water unabated. This is why parts of the gulf have cooled dramatically, persistent convection and rains.

In the tropics itself, it may be a different story as trade winds play a different role and warm water is able to readily sustain convection.
0 likes   
The above post and any post by Ntxw is NOT an official forecast and should not be used as such. It is just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is NOT endorsed by any professional institution including Storm2k. For official information, please refer to NWS products.

  Help support Storm2K!
Help Support Storm2K

User avatar
NDG
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 14950
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#476 Postby NDG » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:20 am

:uarrow: Usually when cooler waters get left behind in the subtropical Atlantic after weeks of a stormy pattern and upwelling that's when high pressure finds a home due to subsidence and mid level ridging after a pattern change such as the NAO going positive, IMO.
0 likes   

User avatar
wxman57
Moderator-Pro Met
Moderator-Pro Met
Posts: 22512
Age: 66
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:06 pm
Location: Houston, TX (southwest)

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#477 Postby wxman57 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:08 am

I'm seeing a weaker SAL this June vs. recent years. Weaker subtropical high is the reason. Possibly a sign that the MDR will be more active this year.
6 likes   

User avatar
MGC
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 5799
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 9:05 pm
Location: Pass Christian MS, or what is left.

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#478 Postby MGC » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:08 am

wxman57 wrote:I'm seeing a weaker SAL this June vs. recent years. Weaker subtropical high is the reason. Possibly a sign that the MDR will be more active this year.


As long as the storms recurve before the islands I'd be happy with that.....MGC
2 likes   

User avatar
Kazmit
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1915
Age: 21
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:49 am
Location: Williamsburg VA for college, Bermuda otherwise

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#479 Postby Kazmit » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:22 pm

:uarrow: Not much dry air at all. I agree with others that we might see more storms develop in the MDR and more long-tracking Cape Verde hurricanes.

Image
1 likes   
Igor 2010, Sandy 2012, Fay 2014, Gonzalo 2014, Joaquin 2015, Nicole 2016, Humberto 2019

I am only a tropical weather enthusiast. My predictions are not official and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 139724
Age: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2017 indicators: SST's / MSLP / SAL / Steering / Instability

#480 Postby cycloneye » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:48 pm

1 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blown Away, jconsor, kevin and 41 guests