2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#501 Postby Category5Kaiju » Tue May 18, 2021 9:48 am

NotSparta wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:At this rate CSU et al. will need to reduce their numbers substantially. This SST profile + African monsoon supports 2018-type numbers/indices at best.


Just because the SSTs aren't as warm as 2020 shouldn't be a reason to cap a forecast that low, especially when there is no +ENSO like in 2018


Imho it is actually a very good thing that the sst anomalies are not as warm as they were last year (and something I expected in the first place). I mean, if indeed the 2021 sst anomalies were like 2020, then I would be very concerned obviously that we could see another 30 NS 7 MH season :lol:

My point is I don't think this season will be crazy like last year and produce a whopping 30 NS and 7 MH. But I cannot see at this point in time what major factors would impede an active season from occurring in ASO.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#502 Postby cycloneye » Tue May 18, 2021 9:50 am

USTropics wrote:I wouldn't do too much handwringing over SSTs in May tbh, it creates sort of a "base" for the season (i.e., starting point). It's clear why the MDR remains neutral-cold anomalies currently. Here is an analysis of May 1st - 15th 500mb heights anomalies.

https://i.imgur.com/vx1WPxj.png

What do these anomalies show? If we apply some basic meteorology concepts (such as wind flow around high/low pressures), we can establish what we will expect to see on wind zonal anomalies. Namely, flow south away from the anomalous high pressure over much of the subtropical Atlantic has increased trade flow over much of the MDR. Here is the same output with a general idea of wind vectors currently and how this impacts sea surface temperatures:

https://i.imgur.com/SODYSIV.png

We can further analyze this using 850mb zonal wind anomalies (purple = anomalous easterly flow, red = anomalous westerly flow):

https://i.imgur.com/0gN2XtG.png

What does all of this have to do with sea surface temperatures? Increased trades (easterly flow as seen above) reduces warming over the MDR region (SSTA -). Anomalous high pressure over the subtropics reduce wind flow in this region (SSTA +). The same general flow is also seen south of the MDR (due to high pressure over South America/South Atlantic) and is also creating the same effect (SSTA +).

We also must keep in mind how this wind pattern impacts the conveyor belt of water flow in the Atlantic (i.e., ocean currents). First here is an output of the current sea surface temperatures in the Atlantic:
https://i.imgur.com/qoxO640.jpg

Now overlay this with some rough estimates of ocean currents in the north Atlantic, and keep in mind the earlier wind vectors that were analyzed in the 500mb heights anomalies above.
https://i.imgur.com/acwKY89.jpg

The currents in white are the main equatorial currents that act to drive warm water away from the equator towards the poles (i.e., redistribution of energy towards the higher latitudes). The Gulf Stream current (in pink) is known as a western boundary current, with its main purpose to also redistribute warm water in the tropics poleward. We also have what is known as the Canary current (in blue), which is an eastern boundary current—the main purpose of the Canary current is to transport colder water from the higher latitudes towards the lower latitudes. Highlighted in green is the Atlantic's North Equatorial Counter Current (NECC). This is known as a wind-driven current, as it primary lies at the surface of the ocean and is highly subject to seasonal wind forcing (due to a shrinking of Corolisis parameters along the equator).

So again, overlaying the wind vectors from earlier we are seeing: (1) increased trade winds along the MDR, which enhances the flow of the equatorial currents (i.e., enhances flow of warm water away from the tropics to the subtropics), (2) high pressure off the EC enhances the Gulf Stream flow, which also enhances flow of warm water poleward away from the tropics, (3) flow around the high pressure area in the eastern Atlantic enhances the Canary current, distributing cold water to the tropics (keep in mind SSTAs show this anomalously warm, but actual temperatures, as seen above, is still much cooler waters compared to temperatures in the MDR), and (4) enhanced westerly flow south of the equator enhances the NECC, which lets anomalously warmer water remain east of 20W near Africa.

Now using all this information, we can start to see why we have an SSTA configuration that is currently in the Atlantic:
https://i.imgur.com/ThNkg5w.jpg

So what would change this current profile? As other commenters have stated, a relaxation in trade winds is a start. A displacement of the anomalous high pressure that has been over the subtropical/central Atlantic would also displace wind flow. We can already see these processes occurring (and remember, sea surface temperature adjustments are not immediate, it often takes weeks to respond to atmospheric changes). For example, here was the SST trend for the first day of May 2021 (which takes into account the last week of April):

https://i.imgur.com/7ra66el.jpg

Stretched high pressure and zonal flow across the subtropics had enhanced warming (SSTA +) along the entire subtropics. Since, that high pressure area has centered more towards the eastern Atlantic, which has created upwelling along the NW coast of Africa (SSTA -), drives warming along the western African coast (SSTA +), and we can see the most enhanced warming is now in the eastern subtropics (per the 7-day trend):
https://i.imgur.com/HeBLjjG.jpg

So TLDR: atmospheric setups are fluid and difficult to forecast; it's impossible the current SSTA signature will be the same in July, let alone by ASO. Consider May SSTAs a starting base, but not a projection for future SSTAs. Modeling of atmospheric patterns will provide a better determination of this (see 500mb height anomaly forecasts and 850mb zonal wind anomaly forecasts from seasonal models, like the CFS model at TT - https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 51718&fh=1, seasonal model output at Copernicus - https://climate.copernicus.eu/seasonal-forecasts, or the NMME model - https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... anom.shtml).


This is a great and informative post.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#503 Postby SFLcane » Tue May 18, 2021 10:00 am

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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#504 Postby NotSparta » Tue May 18, 2021 10:50 am

Shell Mound wrote:
NotSparta wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:At this rate CSU et al. will need to reduce their numbers substantially. This SST profile + African monsoon supports 2018-type numbers/indices at best.

Just because the SSTs aren't as warm as 2020 shouldn't be a reason to cap a forecast that low, especially when there is no +ENSO like in 2018

Perhaps I’m too conservative. On another note, why do you think the subtropical ridge has been stronger than expected during the recent, prolonged -NAO episode?


The post above shows it quite well, the -NAO low was quite far north which meant less suppression of the subtropical ridge and stronger trade winds
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#505 Postby Shell Mound » Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am

NotSparta wrote:
Shell Mound wrote:
NotSparta wrote:Just because the SSTs aren't as warm as 2020 shouldn't be a reason to cap a forecast that low, especially when there is no +ENSO like in 2018

Perhaps I’m too conservative. On another note, why do you think the subtropical ridge has been stronger than expected during the recent, prolonged -NAO episode?


The post above shows it quite well, the -NAO low was quite far north which meant less suppression of the subtropical ridge and stronger trade winds

Yes, I am aware of this, but why was it located so far to the north? Could the expansion of the Hadley cell(s) be responsible for the displacement?
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#506 Postby Shell Mound » Tue May 18, 2021 11:10 am


Image
Image
Source for latter: Tropical Tidbits

The top five analogs based on global SST anomalies over the past month (bottom) match reasonably well with the EC’s forecast (top) for ASO 2021.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#507 Postby SFLcane » Tue May 18, 2021 12:44 pm

Say goodbye to your cool MDR per the CFS the switch is about to Flip. I do not have a weatherbell account to view the CFS daily but i was able to grab a screen shot of June26 via youtube. Check out those anomalies off the african coast! There is a hole there its do to the way its display but if it weren't there i'd bet you would have yourself an above average basin.

This is June 26th... we shall see in a few weeks if it verifies.

Image
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#508 Postby SFLcane » Tue May 18, 2021 1:44 pm

Great informative video of potential steering this season. Florida :cry:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/fiskrbHUuxc[/youtube]
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#509 Postby cycloneye » Tue May 18, 2021 6:51 pm

May 18 and there is this. Nothing to develop but interesting to see something like this in that 20W area.

Image

Image
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#510 Postby crownweather » Tue May 18, 2021 8:51 pm

cycloneye wrote:May 18 and there is this. Nothing to develop but interesting to see something like this in that 20W area.

https://i.imgur.com/LoBLrDB.png

https://i.imgur.com/17vMQuv.png


This has been at least the third fairly well developed tropical "disturbance" out in the far E Atlantic just this month. Like you said, nothing to develop, but quite interesting for this time of year.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#511 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Tue May 18, 2021 9:28 pm

Euro still showing what appears to be prime CAG conditions for the first half of June. Whether or not we'll get Atlantic or EPAC development is up in the air of course, as usual with these messy monsoonal gyre setups:
Image
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#512 Postby hurricanes1234 » Tue May 18, 2021 10:05 pm

cycloneye wrote:May 18 and there is this. Nothing to develop but interesting to see something like this in that 20W area.

https://i.imgur.com/LoBLrDB.png

https://i.imgur.com/17vMQuv.png


Could this be our first tropical wave?
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#513 Postby SFLcane » Wed May 19, 2021 8:18 am

CFS is certainly on to something with wanting to warm up the main development region rather quickly.

 https://twitter.com/dcareawx/status/1394812108374687744


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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#514 Postby cycloneye » Wed May 19, 2021 8:33 am

Does anyone has a comparison of late Mays in the past with 2021 in this area?

Image
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#515 Postby SFLcane » Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am

cycloneye wrote:Does anyone has a comparison of late Mays in the past with 2021 in this area?

https://i.imgur.com/BnvsJaU.png



There's a CCKW there right now but still quite impressive.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#516 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed May 19, 2021 9:29 am

Also it looks like we have a 30% chance of seeing a TD or NS in the Atlantic in the next 5 days
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#517 Postby AutoPenalti » Wed May 19, 2021 9:42 am

cycloneye wrote:Does anyone has a comparison of late Mays in the past with 2021 in this area?

https://i.imgur.com/BnvsJaU.png

Looks like it maintained its structure after splashing down but seems to be enhanced with a CCKW moving through the area. Pretty interesting.
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#518 Postby cycloneye » Wed May 19, 2021 11:01 am

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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#519 Postby Shell Mound » Thu May 20, 2021 3:05 am

SFLcane wrote:Great informative video of potential steering this season. Florida :cry:

https://youtu.be/fiskrbHUuxc

Image
Image
As far as steering is concerned, based on the possible location and track of soon-to-be STS Ana, perhaps this season will be a blend of 1999 and 2017. The mean of Floyd (1999) and Irma (2017) would place storms curving into Southeast Florida, similarly to the early model runs that took Irma into Miami. The somewhat reliable EC suggests a reduced frequency of ≥ 45-kt wind gusts from North Carolina to New England during the peak trimonthly period of ASO, so perhaps it is hinting at a blocking ridge over the Mid-Atlantic that acts to keep storms confined farther south, suggesting more of a threat to peninsular Florida vs. points east (Outer Banks) and west (Gulf).
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Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#520 Postby Nuno » Thu May 20, 2021 6:45 am

Shell Mound wrote:
SFLcane wrote:Great informative video of potential steering this season. Florida :cry:

https://youtu.be/fiskrbHUuxc

https://i.postimg.cc/brXmwt4m/20177-Sept-Irma-79.png
https://i.postimg.cc/43S8jMPk/20177-Sept-Irma-82.jpg
As far as steering is concerned, based on the possible location and track of soon-to-be STS Ana, perhaps this season will be a blend of 1999 and 2017. The mean of Floyd (1999) and Irma (2017) would place storms curving into Southeast Florida, similarly to the early model runs that took Irma into Miami. The somewhat reliable EC suggests a reduced frequency of ≥ 45-kt wind gusts from North Carolina to New England during the peak trimonthly period of ASO, so perhaps it is hinting at a blocking ridge over the Mid-Atlantic that acts to keep storms confined farther south, suggesting more of a threat to peninsular Florida vs. points east (Outer Banks) and west (Gulf).


Blending 1999 and 2017 wouldn't be too far off from the ECMWF C3S forecast posted earlier for ASO. I worry for the Bahamas this season especially. Tracks over the Bahamas or so close to SE FL could result in OBX brushes too, though there weren't any in 2017.
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