Largest eye at landfall in the United States

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Derek Ortt

#61 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:08 am

Allen also went through a well documented EWRC just before landfall (a legit EWRC... not an aborted attempt at one like a few GC hurricanes)

See Willoughby et al. (1982) for some good information on Allen
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Ed Mahmoud

Re:

#62 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:15 am

richtrav wrote:The Texas coast, especially the southern part, has some pretty dry desert country to its west. I thought that was a big reason that Allen did not turn into an absolute disaster for the southern coast, it apparently sucked in enough air from the Mexican deserts to cripple it before landfall. That and the path most big hurricanes have to take to get to the southern coast generally involve crossing the Yucatan (though Beulah and Emily both crossed the Yucatan and redeveloped into Cat 3s anyways)



Joe Bastardi has commented, and I think he is right, that a tropical storm or weak hurricane crossing land, like the Yucatan, has a better chance of becoming a major hurricane, than a major hurricane that hits land and weakens, or regaining full strength.

He cites Isidore as an example. The storm weakens from the strongest part out, near the center, the last area to weaken are the outer band showers. When the storm gets back over water, the inner core has a tough time re-organizing due to competition from the outer bands.


I know not everyone likes JB, and lately he rants more and writes about weather less, but he uses easy to understand analogies for the non professional like myself.
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Derek Ortt

#63 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:17 am

I have to disagre with him.

Gilbert and Emily quickly regained major hurricane status, as did Wilma and many others
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Ed Mahmoud

Re:

#64 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:30 am

Derek Ortt wrote:I have to disagre with him.

Gilbert and Emily quickly regained major hurricane status, as did Wilma and many others


IIRC, Gilbert was a Cat 5 before the Yucatan, and only a Category 3 after.

Major both sides, but a Ferrari major vs a Red Bull major. Or, to use a "Napcar" analogy, a Hendricks or Gibbs major, versus a Furniture Row Racing or 'Racing for Jesus' major. I was in the Navy then, and don't know if shear, dry air off Mexico or lower oceanic heat content limited its restrengthening, (although I personally think oceanic heat content, when a function of water depth, may be over-rated for fast moving storms that don't dwell on their upwelling). But it wasn't as strong after as before.
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Re: Largest eye at landfall in the United States

#65 Postby HurricaneRobert » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:39 pm

I think the core was disrupted. Maybe big storms like those take a long time to regain the eyewalls.
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Derek Ortt

#66 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:40 pm

However, Emily intensified from a 70KT cat 1 into a 110KT cat 3, while Gilbert intensiied from an 85KT cat 2 to a 115KT prior to landfall
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#67 Postby KWT » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:53 pm

Doesn't it really depend on how well the core copes overland, if it can keep its core decently in tact in terms of structure then surely if it gets under the right atmospheric conidtions its going to re-strengthen again.

By the way one thing I have always wondered about, what happened to Dennis 2005 when it came off Cuba. It held up so well overland yet as soon as it hit water it weakened rapidly. Did it hit shear, or could it have been the high temps overland that helped to raise lapse rates and keep the system ticking over (well relativly well ticked over anyway for a system inland) and as soon as it hit the water this process stopped and the true weakening of Cuba showed its hand?
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Derek Ortt

#68 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:17 pm

Dennis rapidly intensified once it mvoed off of Cuba.

It somehow managed to sit over Cuba for nearly 24 hours
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#69 Postby KWT » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:30 pm

Yeah Derek it did but not before weakening just as it came off-land, got down to 80kts before it ramped up again over the high heat content of the gulf (Didn't it pass through the gulf loop current or whatever its called when it quickly strengthened.
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#70 Postby Decomdoug » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:03 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:Annular hurricanes have no rainbands... they resemble the truck tire



"Truck" as in "you were just run over by a truck."
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#71 Postby Category 5 » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:45 am

Derek Ortt wrote:Dennis rapidly intensified once it mvoed off of Cuba.

It somehow managed to sit over Cuba for nearly 24 hours


If I remember correctly it was able to keep it's core pretty much fully in tact, then it hit the loop current.
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Re: Re:

#72 Postby Cyclenall » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:05 pm

Category 5 wrote:If I remember correctly it was able to keep it's core pretty much fully in tact, then it hit the loop current.

It hit the loop current and then started weakening? Makes no sense.
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Re: Largest eye at landfall in the United States

#73 Postby MiamiensisWx » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:40 pm

Dennis maintained its inner core structure after leaving Cuba, and its intensity was steady until rapid intensification occurred over the Gulf Loop Current and deepest 26 degree isotherm. Tropical cyclones often intensify under favorable conditions when the potential energy extends well below surface. High heat content is another beneficial factor. I believe the low ambient pressures surrounding Dennis also contributed to its intensification rate in the eastern Gulf of Mexico, which briefly "bordered on the insane" according to one of the TPC's advisories.
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Re: Largest eye at landfall in the United States

#74 Postby Cyclenall » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:06 pm

MiamiensisWx wrote:Dennis maintained its inner core structure after leaving Cuba, and its intensity was steady until rapid intensification occurred over the Gulf Loop Current and deepest 26 degree isotherm. Tropical cyclones often intensify under favorable conditions when the potential energy extends well below surface. High heat content is another beneficial factor. I believe the low ambient pressures surrounding Dennis also contributed to its intensification rate in the eastern Gulf of Mexico, which briefly "bordered on the insane" according to one of the TPC's advisories.

So it did strengthen, not weaken. It was 10:00 pm CDT Saturday July 9, 2005 that statement was made about Dennis bordering on insane. It would be more fitting for a storm like Wilma though...oh wait, that WAS insane.
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Re: Largest eye at landfall in the United States

#75 Postby CrazyC83 » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:10 pm

Cyclenall wrote:
MiamiensisWx wrote:Dennis maintained its inner core structure after leaving Cuba, and its intensity was steady until rapid intensification occurred over the Gulf Loop Current and deepest 26 degree isotherm. Tropical cyclones often intensify under favorable conditions when the potential energy extends well below surface. High heat content is another beneficial factor. I believe the low ambient pressures surrounding Dennis also contributed to its intensification rate in the eastern Gulf of Mexico, which briefly "bordered on the insane" according to one of the TPC's advisories.

So it did strengthen, not weaken. It was 10:00 pm CDT Saturday July 9, 2005 that statement was made about Dennis bordering on insane. It would be more fitting for a storm like Wilma though...oh wait, that WAS insane.


Bordering on insane for July 9th though. Wilma was definitely insane though - the only storm known that might come close to her in intensification rates in the Atlantic was the 1935 Labor Day Hurricane (probably went from about 975mb to 892mb in 24 hours).
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#76 Postby KWT » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:49 am

Hold up it didn't strengthen as soon as it left Cuba, in fact best track showed it didn't hit rock bottom till it was just over sea (granted it was probably that low over land as well), got down to 75kts, indeed at first it only slowly re-strengthened as the inner core re-organised itself and it wasn't till about 18hrs after finishing its land trek over cuba did it re-strengthen again in a big way, went from 90kts to 125kts in 12hrs, RI indeed!!
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#77 Postby Frank2 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:39 pm

Frances (2004), while just offshore West Palm Beach - Brian Norcross (Miami OCM) commented that it had the structure at that time of a Pacific Typhoon, not an Atlantic Hurricane...

Wima (2005) was also in the large eye category, as well as Hurricane Andrew (1992)...
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Derek Ortt

#78 Postby Derek Ortt » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:59 pm

Andrew large eye? Sure you are not thinking Hugo of 1989? Andrew's eye was only ~8NM wide at landfall
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Re:

#79 Postby HurricaneBill » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:14 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:Andrew large eye? Sure you are not thinking Hugo of 1989? Andrew's eye was only ~8NM wide at landfall


Maybe he meant Andrew's second landfall.
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Re: Largest eye at landfall in the United States

#80 Postby Frank2 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:32 pm

My error - Derek is correct (I'll stand by my choices of Frances and Wilma, however)...

That's what happens when you have 48 years of hurricane memories to think about (starting with Donna (1960) - they all start to mush together)...

LOL
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