2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#981 Postby Category5Kaiju » Sat May 18, 2024 6:19 pm

skyline385 wrote:
IcyTundra wrote:I'd happily take no systems in the western Gulf this year. I hope the last week of CFS runs is right but I doubt it.


CFS is the only outlier right now and even if all models trend towards it, I would still prepare like no other year. The setup this year will afford no complacency. The GoM is already running well above average and the current summer outlook calls for another hot summer so you can be sure the GoM will continue to run well above average for the hurricane season.

[url]https://i.postimg.cc/Hn6mYd4f/image.png [/url]
[url]https://i.postimg.cc/mgFvqQJx/image.png [/url]


Yeah....holy cow.

I'm really hoping that any strong storm that forms in the MDR turns on out to sea, because if the generic La Nina steering patterns hold this year, then I'm afraid to say that someplace along the Gulf Coast, the Caribbean Islands, Florida, or the Eastern Seaboard is going to get seriously nailed by a Cape Verde hurricane. If there was any year that would feature an Irma or Ivan-like storm, it's probably going to be this year.

And we also need to be wary of the kinds of storms that form in the West Atlantic and rapidly intensify and hit land within days. Look at what Ida, Michael, Harvey, and Camille all have in common.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#982 Postby WeatherBoy2000 » Sat May 18, 2024 7:30 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
skyline385 wrote:
IcyTundra wrote:I'd happily take no systems in the western Gulf this year. I hope the last week of CFS runs is right but I doubt it.


CFS is the only outlier right now and even if all models trend towards it, I would still prepare like no other year. The setup this year will afford no complacency. The GoM is already running well above average and the current summer outlook calls for another hot summer so you can be sure the GoM will continue to run well above average for the hurricane season.

[url]https://i.postimg.cc/Hn6mYd4f/image.png [/url]
[url]https://i.postimg.cc/mgFvqQJx/image.png [/url]


Yeah....holy cow.

I'm really hoping that any strong storm that forms in the MDR turns on out to sea, because if the generic La Nina steering patterns hold this year, then I'm afraid to say that someplace along the Gulf Coast, the Caribbean Islands, Florida, or the Eastern Seaboard is going to get seriously nailed by a Cape Verde hurricane. If there was any year that would feature an Irma or Ivan-like storm, it's probably going to be this year.

And we also need to be wary of the kinds of storms that form in the West Atlantic and rapidly intensify and hit land within days. Look at what Ida, Michael, Harvey, and Camille all have in common.


Even if we do end up with a recurve heavy season regarding mdr storms, I'd be very surprised if we don't end up with at least a couple monsters in the western Atlantic/Gulf/Caribbean with this set up. We have a first year la nina coming up paired with a record warm Caribbean. Since the late 80s nearly every first year la nina has had at least one major hurricane in the Caribbean. 1988 had Gilbert/Joan, 1995 had Roxanne, 1998 had Mitch, 2005 had Wilma for one, 2007 had Dean/Felix, 2016 had Matthew/Otto, and 2020 had Delta/Eta/Iota. The only exception to this is 2010.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#983 Postby chaser1 » Sat May 18, 2024 11:11 pm

2020 was probably the "best case" lucky scenario for a first year Nina, and I think Florida & Louisiana were particularly lucky given the unusual upper level shear that seemed to remain persistent in the western part of the basin. Unlike that year though, the 2024 forecasted NAO is anticipated to be positive during the peak of the season and with stronger high pressure over the Central Atlantic, far more storm tracks should continue further west. Just for now though, lets assume that the NAO only remains neutral. Furthermore, it is my suspicion that La Nina will not be as a significant driver with ENSO taking longer to transition. I still think that the outcome might be two groups of storm tracks and it would be those tropical cyclones developing west of 60W that I think will result in the greatest risk to the GOM, S.E. CONUS, Bahamas, and Caribbean region. One thing I'll be especially interested to see is how long will E. Atlantic surface pressures remain high ultimately pinning/suppressing the ITCZ far to the south as it is now. In my eyes, that would be a bad thing leaving a greater number of tropical genesis to occur further west. If the summer "wave train" does really get rolling by August, these SST's and even a cool neutral ENSO should be enough to have us see numerous majors to occur. I've gotta say though, if I ever thought there was a year that Florida, the Bahamas, Cuba, Yucatan and Central America were under the gun.... this is that year. By the way, Gilbert and Joan were already retired off that 1988 list.... any takers on how many more will be retired from that same list this year? I'd guess at least four.

(EDIT - "not" 2020....... meant 2012. Good on Beef Stew for catching that :wink: )
Last edited by chaser1 on Sun May 19, 2024 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#984 Postby Beef Stew » Sun May 19, 2024 12:42 am

chaser1 wrote:2020 was probably the "best case" lucky scenario for a first year Nina, and I think Florida & Louisiana were particularly lucky given the unusual upper level shear that seemed to remain persistent in the western part of the basin. Unlike that year though, the 2024 forecasted NAO is anticipated to be positive during the peak of the season and with stronger high pressure over the Central Atlantic, far more storm tracks should continue further west. Just for now though, lets assume that the NAO only remains neutral. Furthermore, it is my suspicion that La Nina will not be as a significant driver with ENSO taking longer to transition. I still think that the outcome might be two groups of storm tracks and it would be those tropical cyclones developing west of 60W that I think will result in the greatest risk to the GOM, S.E. CONUS, Bahamas, and Caribbean region. One thing I'll be especially interested to see is how long will E. Atlantic surface pressures remain high ultimately pinning/suppressing the ITCZ far to the south as it is now. In my eyes, that would be a bad thing leaving a greater number of tropical genesis to occur further west. If the summer "wave train" does really get rolling by August, these SST's and even a cool neutral ENSO should be enough to have us see numerous majors to occur. I've gotta say though, if I ever thought there was a year that Florida, the Bahamas, Cuba, Yucatan and Central America were under the gun.... this is that year. By the way, Gilbert and Joan were already retired off that 1988 list.... any takers on how many more will be retired from that same list this year? I'd guess at least four.


Are you sure you mean 2020 and not 2010? 2020 seemed to have a lack of notable wind shear in much of the western basin for the majority of the season- and if 2020 was the “best-case” for Louisiana… let’s just say I’d hate to see what the worst-case looks like!
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#985 Postby chaser1 » Sun May 19, 2024 1:12 am

Beef Stew wrote:
chaser1 wrote:2020 was probably the "best case" lucky scenario for a first year Nina, and I think Florida & Louisiana were particularly lucky given the unusual upper level shear that seemed to remain persistent in the western part of the basin. Unlike that year though, the 2024 forecasted NAO is anticipated to be positive during the peak of the season and with stronger high pressure over the Central Atlantic, far more storm tracks should continue further west. Just for now though, lets assume that the NAO only remains neutral. Furthermore, it is my suspicion that La Nina will not be as a significant driver with ENSO taking longer to transition. I still think that the outcome might be two groups of storm tracks and it would be those tropical cyclones developing west of 60W that I think will result in the greatest risk to the GOM, S.E. CONUS, Bahamas, and Caribbean region. One thing I'll be especially interested to see is how long will E. Atlantic surface pressures remain high ultimately pinning/suppressing the ITCZ far to the south as it is now. In my eyes, that would be a bad thing leaving a greater number of tropical genesis to occur further west. If the summer "wave train" does really get rolling by August, these SST's and even a cool neutral ENSO should be enough to have us see numerous majors to occur. I've gotta say though, if I ever thought there was a year that Florida, the Bahamas, Cuba, Yucatan and Central America were under the gun.... this is that year. By the way, Gilbert and Joan were already retired off that 1988 list.... any takers on how many more will be retired from that same list this year? I'd guess at least four.


Are you sure you mean 2020 and not 2010? 2020 seemed to have a lack of notable wind shear in much of the western basin for the majority of the season- and if 2020 was the “best-case” for Louisiana… let’s just say I’d hate to see what the worst-case looks like!


:roflmao: You are CORRECT sir! If 2020 were "best case" for Louisiana, then the only worse might be an asteroid. Good catch; definitely meant 2010!
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#986 Postby Category5Kaiju » Sun May 19, 2024 9:04 am

chaser1 wrote:2020 was probably the "best case" lucky scenario for a first year Nina, and I think Florida & Louisiana were particularly lucky given the unusual upper level shear that seemed to remain persistent in the western part of the basin. Unlike that year though, the 2024 forecasted NAO is anticipated to be positive during the peak of the season and with stronger high pressure over the Central Atlantic, far more storm tracks should continue further west. Just for now though, lets assume that the NAO only remains neutral. Furthermore, it is my suspicion that La Nina will not be as a significant driver with ENSO taking longer to transition. I still think that the outcome might be two groups of storm tracks and it would be those tropical cyclones developing west of 60W that I think will result in the greatest risk to the GOM, S.E. CONUS, Bahamas, and Caribbean region. One thing I'll be especially interested to see is how long will E. Atlantic surface pressures remain high ultimately pinning/suppressing the ITCZ far to the south as it is now. In my eyes, that would be a bad thing leaving a greater number of tropical genesis to occur further west. If the summer "wave train" does really get rolling by August, these SST's and even a cool neutral ENSO should be enough to have us see numerous majors to occur. I've gotta say though, if I ever thought there was a year that Florida, the Bahamas, Cuba, Yucatan and Central America were under the gun.... this is that year. By the way, Gilbert and Joan were already retired off that 1988 list.... any takers on how many more will be retired from that same list this year? I'd guess at least four.

(EDIT - "not" 2020....... meant 2012. Good on Beef Stew for catching that :wink: )


Much like how 2005, 2013, and 2020 were alarming anomalies, I could say the same for 2010 in how it was a super active year that had very few impacts in the grand scheme of things, especially the US. We didn't even have an Ida or Idalia-like storm that formed in the W. Atlantic and hit the CONUS. For active years, while it's true that not every storm will hit land and that you can expect a reasonable number of them to fly on out to sea, 2010 went against all statistical odds, with most of its storms (especially the strong ones) going on out to sea. You probably wouldn't expect that kind of behavior from a hyperactive season.

Additionally, 2010 apparently had this sneaky, persistent issue of dry air (it mentions this on its wikipedia page), hence why it wasn't even more active given its set up and why its early season pre-late August was sort of quiet.

I would be very happy (but also extremely surprised to say the least) if 2024 ends up like 2010. Especially given how the wet anomalies overwhelmingly point towards land, I think this season will bring some memorable impacts somewhere. My guess is at least 3-4 retired names too.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#987 Postby skyline385 » Sun May 19, 2024 12:36 pm

That +AMO continues to look ridiculous with anomalies starting to concentrate in the western MDR which is never a good sign.

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#988 Postby zzzh » Sun May 19, 2024 1:43 pm

Strong SAL outbreak incoming.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#989 Postby skyline385 » Sun May 19, 2024 1:47 pm

zzzh wrote:Strong SAL outbreak incoming.


Hmm not seeing much on the Aerosol models, probably just lingering dry air in the basin. There is one forecasted but it is a little bit out.

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#990 Postby Stratton23 » Sun May 19, 2024 1:53 pm

Yeah that doesnt look like its going to be a big shot of dust coming off of africa, once that dust is gone at the beginning of august , its really gonna get busy
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#991 Postby Cpv17 » Sun May 19, 2024 2:26 pm

Stratton23 wrote:Yeah that doesnt look like its going to be a big shot of dust coming off of africa, once that dust is gone at the beginning of august , its really gonna get busy


I’m really interested in July this year. July is usually dead, but I kinda feel like it could be different this year.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#992 Postby Stratton23 » Sun May 19, 2024 2:56 pm

Cpv17 yeah i wouldnt be surprised at all if july ends up being active, seems like a lot of the busier seasons we have had start off a little slow in june but once you get to july/ august it really begins to take off.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#993 Postby Stratton23 » Sun May 19, 2024 4:30 pm

Man the Western Caribbean and the Bay of Campache are the two hotspots right now in terms of SST’s rising, that is extremely concerning
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#994 Postby cycloneye » Sun May 19, 2024 4:36 pm

Stratton23 wrote:Man the Western Caribbean and the Bay of Campache are the two hotspots right now in terms of SST’s rising, that is extremely concerning


In fact, almost the whole Caribbean Sea is very warm with another hot spot near the Lesser Antilles and Eastern Caribbean.


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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#995 Postby Category5Kaiju » Sun May 19, 2024 5:14 pm

cycloneye wrote:
Stratton23 wrote:Man the Western Caribbean and the Bay of Campache are the two hotspots right now in terms of SST’s rising, that is extremely concerning


In fact, almost the whole Caribbean Sea is very warm with another hot spot near the Lesser Antilles and Eastern Caribbean.


https://i.imgur.com/kFfIScf.png


Crazy to see +30 C water patches starting to appear (see just south of Cuba's western tip). Theoretically, if there was no wind shear or dry air and if there was a tropical disturbance in the Caribbean Sea, it could theoretically reach Cat 4 strength.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#996 Postby skyline385 » Sun May 19, 2024 5:42 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
cycloneye wrote:
Stratton23 wrote:Man the Western Caribbean and the Bay of Campache are the two hotspots right now in terms of SST’s rising, that is extremely concerning


In fact, almost the whole Caribbean Sea is very warm with another hot spot near the Lesser Antilles and Eastern Caribbean.


https://i.imgur.com/kFfIScf.png


Crazy to see +30 C water patches starting to appear (see just south of Cuba's western tip). Theoretically, if there was no wind shear or dry air and if there was a tropical disturbance in the Caribbean Sea, it could theoretically reach Cat 4 strength.


I posted this a few days ago but there is actually a pretty decent pool of 30.5C near Cuba's Western tip and in the center of that, a small 31C pool has recently emerged.

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#997 Postby cycloneye » Sun May 19, 2024 6:23 pm

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#998 Postby cycloneye » Sun May 19, 2024 6:49 pm

Levi Cowan made his first video of the 2024 season. As always, a great analysis by him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFID_jfNId4
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#999 Postby Woofde » Sun May 19, 2024 7:31 pm

He really does such a great job presenting and explaining things, clear and concise. I especially found the wind shear correlation map interesting. I was curious how the Atlantic is doing so far. It looks like we are right on track climatologically speaking.ImageImage
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1000 Postby toad strangler » Sun May 19, 2024 8:21 pm

cycloneye wrote:Levi Cowan made his first video of the 2024 season. As always, a great analysis by him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFID_jfNId4


Tremendous amounts of great info packed in that 14 plus minutes. Thanks for the heads up. Levi Cowan!
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