Question about names crossing over from Pacific to Atlantic

[Cleveland Kent Evans]

Since this isn't relevant to the real weather news about Alma I thought I shouldn't post the question in the ongoing storms thread.

But the Wikipedia entry on Hurricane Cesar-Douglas states, without attribution:

In the future, tropical cyclones that cross from the Atlantic to the Pacific (or vice-versa) will retain the initial given name of the storm, as long as the storm maintains tropical storm strength or greater.

Is the above correct? If Alma would cross Central America into the Caribbean or Gulf, would it remain "Alma" instead of changing its name to "Arthur"?

[Chacor]

I quote the 2008 National Hurricane Operations Plan:

The following rules apply for tropical cyclones passing from one basin to another: Retain
the name if a tropical cyclone passes from one basin into another basin as a tropical cyclone; i.e.,
advisories are continuous. An unnamed tropical depression will also retain its number (e.g.
Tropical Depression Six-E remains Tropical Depression Six-E) if it crosses into another area of responsibility.

[Cleveland Kent Evans]

Thank you!

[rainbow24]

I have a question. If a storm crosses over (say Alma for example) how is the next storm in our basin named? Would it be our "A" or does it move to "B" then?

[brunota2003]

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/B5.html

[senorpepr]

I have a question. If a storm crosses over (say Alma for example) how is the next storm in our basin named? Would it be our "A" or does it move to "B" then?

If this case, if Alma survives and advisories are maintained throughout the crossover, it would be kept as Alma. The next storm would then be named Arthur.

However, if Alma dissipates and advisories are stopped, then a new circulation develops in the Atlantic basin, it would be named Arthur.

[TampaFl]

I have a question. If a storm crosses over (say Alma for example) how is the next storm in our basin named? Would it be our "A" or does it move to "B" then?

If this case, if Alma survives and advisories are maintained throughout the crossover, it would be kept as Alma. The next storm would then be named Arthur.

However, if Alma dissipates and advisories are stopped, then a new circulation develops in the Atlantic basin, it would be named Arthur.

[Derek Ortt]

I think also if advisories are stopped, but it is the same center, it is then retained as Alma (that was the big debate with regards to Iris in 2001)

[RattleMan]

I think also if advisories are stopped, but it is the same center, it is then retained as Alma (that was the big debate with regards to Iris in 2001)

AFTER EXTENSIVE POST-ANALYSIS...AND NO SMALL AMOUNT OF DEBATE...IT
WAS DECIDED THAT THIS SYSTEM WAS NOT THE CONTINUATION OF ATLANTIC
HURRICANE IRIS. SATELLITE PICTURES AND SURFACE OBSERVATIONS FROM
YESTERDAY SUGGEST THAT THIS CENTER...WHILE PART OF THE OVERALL
WEATHER SYSTEM ASSOCIATED WITH IRIS...WAS FORMING OVER THE PACIFIC
BEFORE THE CENTER OF IRIS LOST ITS IDENTITY OVER EASTERN MEXICO.
THUS...THE SYSTEM IS CALLED TD FIFTEEN-E INSTEAD OF TD IRIS.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2001/di ... s.001.html

[Chacor]

Well, if advisories are stopped and it crosses basins, it should technically be re-named, since the NHOP says retain the name only if advisories are continuous.

[pojo]

this is what we use....

if the storm crosses the basin and KEEPS its LL Circulation, then the name/ number will be kept.

if the storm crosses the basin and LOSES its LL Circulation, then it will get a new name/number in the new basin.

This is direct from the NHOP

Chapter 3

3.3.1 The following rules apply for tropical cyclones passing from one basin to another: Retain
the name if a tropical cyclone passes from one basin into another basin as a tropical cyclone; i.e.,
advisories are continuous. An unnamed tropical depression will also retain its number (e.g.
Tropical Depression Six-E remains Tropical Depression Six-E) if it crosses into another area of
responsibility. For unnamed tropical depressions moving from west to east across 180°, CPHC
will use the associated Joint Typhoon Warning Center’s (JTWC) number and indicate JTWC in
parentheses following the number. For named systems, CPHC will use the associated (RSMC)
Tokyo name and provide the associated JTWC number in parentheses. (IOKE 2006)

Within a basin, if the remnant of a tropical cyclone redevelops into a tropical cyclone, it is
assigned its original number or name. If the remnants of a former tropical cyclone regenerate in
a new basin, the regenerated tropical cyclone will be given a new designation. (KATRINA 2005)

[caneflyer]

The NHOP is clear, but you guys aren't reading it correctly.

In order for the name to be retained, the system must maintain its status as a tropical cyclone continuously during the crossing. If advisories stop, it makes no difference if a remnant circulation ultimately becomes a tropical cyclone again. The regenerating TC gets a new name.

The rules weren't always this way.

[Ptarmigan]

If Alma was to cross into the Atlantic and redevelop, it would become whatever letter name next on the list, in this case Arthur. Now, if it went back into the Pacific, it would get the name back. However, Hurricane Hattie of 1961 crossed into the Pacific and became Simone. Than Simone move inland and into the Gulf of Mexico and became Inga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Hattie

[americanrebel]

The NHOP is clear, but you guys aren't reading it correctly.

In order for the name to be retained, the system must maintain its status as a tropical cyclone continuously during the crossing. If advisories stop, it makes no difference if a remnant circulation ultimately becomes a tropical cyclone again. The regenerating TC gets a new name.

The rules weren't always this way.

I would have to say I have to agree, it is pretty clear to me, if the weather centers stop giving advisories on the storm, and then comes back out over water and reforms it gets another name. However if it goes over land but the weather centers continue to give advisories on the storm it does not lose its name.

[Cyclone1]

If Alma was to cross into the Atlantic and redevelop, it would become whatever letter name next on the list, in this case Arthur. Now, if it went back into the Pacific, it would get the name back. However, Hurricane Hattie of 1961 crossed into the Pacific and became Simone. Than Simone move inland and into the Gulf of Mexico and became Inga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Hattie

The Simone-Inga relationship isn't well known, but they were most likely the same storm. Either way, that was long before the "keep-the-same-name" rule. In which case, it would've been Hattie the whole way.

[Ptarmigan]

The Simone-Inga relationship isn't well known, but they were most likely the same storm. Either way, that was long before the "keep-the-same-name" rule. In which case, it would've been Hattie the whole way.

Satellite was in its infancy that time.

[Aslkahuna]

There was an article about Hattie-Simone-Inga in Weatherwise some years ago (and by some I mean 40+) that disucssed the relationship and it was clear from synoptic surface map presented in the article that Hattie's circulation and low pressure survived passage into EPAC-less clear was whether Simone did so and the implication is that San Francisco (which issued EPAC advisories those days) dropped the advisories on Simone.

Steve

[Derek Ortt]

advisories were stopped on Cesar for about 12 hours before being started on Douglass. However, they were the same system as indicated by Best Track

Just because advisories are terminated, does not mean the cyclone is "dead", as indicated by the Iris discussion (and if I am understanding what Shannon is saying) until the LLC is dead

[Derek Ortt]

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2001/di ... s.020.html

this discussion from Iris clearly states that the name is retained if advisories are terminated, but the LLC survives

[Chacor]

That's from 2001. I quoted from the 2008 NHOP.