Multiple vortex waterspout in tropics? (HT-Gustywind)

[Ed Mahmoud]

Looked at Gustywind's thread about waterspout spotted near T&T.

Is this multiple vortex? IE, was this actually a tornado over water, as compared to the more typical tropical waterspouts?




The only waterspout I ever saw, was when working offshore in the GOMEX, and it was a very, very narrow vortex, with a slightly wider area of spray at the base, and it was produced by a tall/built up cu, but not what appeared to be a CB. It did not look like this picture.

[Category 5]

was this actually a tornado over water, as compared to the more typical tropical waterspouts?

This WAS a tornado over water, just like every other waterspout is.

Certainly has that look to it though.

[Ed Mahmoud]

was this actually a tornado over water, as compared to the more typical tropical waterspouts?

This WAS a tornado over water, just like every other waterspout is.

Certainly has that look to it though.

Um, you know there is a difference between waterspouts and 'tropical funnels' that form from tall cumulus clouds, under conditions of weak shear, and the type of tornadoes common in the plains that develop from supercells, no?

A waterspout being just 'a tornado over water' is a bit of an over-simplification.

[O Town]

I thought most water spouts never touch the water?
The few I have seen never have and were very narrow as well.
BTW awesome picture.

[bvigal]

I think it's a matter of semantics. Here's a couple of things I found on the internet. Both links have some really cool pictures. Check it out!

Storm Prediction Center, NWS
" What is a waterspout? A waterspout is a tornado over water -- usually meaning non-supercell tornadoes over water. Waterspouts are common along the southeast U.S. coast -- especially off southern Florida and the Keys -- and can happen over seas, bays and lakes worldwide. Although waterspouts are always tornadoes by definition; they don't officially count in tornado records unless they hit land. They are smaller and weaker than the most intense Great Plains tornadoes, but still can be quite dangerous. Waterspouts can overturn small boats, damage ships, do significant damage when hitting land, and kill people. The National Weather Service will often issue special marine warnings when waterspouts are likely or have been sighted over coastal waters, or tornado warnings when waterspouts can move onshore."


Wikipedia
"Non-tornadic

Waterspouts that are not associated with a rotating updraft of a supercell thunderstorm, are known as "nontornadic" or "fair-weather waterspouts", and are by far the most common type.

Fair-weather waterspouts occur in coastal waters and are associated with dark, flat-bottomed, developing convective cumulus towers. They usually rate no higher than EF0 on the Fujita scale, generally exhibiting winds of less than 30 m/s (67 mph). They are most frequently seen in tropical and sub-tropical climates, with upwards of 400 per year observed in the Florida Keys. They typically move slowly, if at all, since the cloud they are attached to is horizontally static, being formed by vertical convective action instead of the subduction/adduction interaction between colliding fronts. Fair-weather waterspouts are very similar in both appearance and mechanics to landspouts, and largely behave as such if they move ashore.


Tornadic

"Tornadic waterspouts", also accurately referred to as "tornadoes over water", are formed from mesocyclonic action in a manner essentially identical to traditional land-based tornadoes, but simply occurring over water. A tornado which travels from land to a body of water would also be considered a tornadic waterspout.

Since the vast majority of mesocyclonic thunderstorms occur in land-locked areas of the United States, true tornadic waterspouts are correspondingly more rare than their fair-weather counterparts. Like all tornadoes, they possess an intensity commensurate to the system which spawned them, but are generally limited in both power and lifespan by the disruptive thermo- and hydrodynamic effects bodies of water tend to have on the complex mesocyclonic action needed to sustain a powerful tornado. Water is also a great deal heavier than the dirt, dust, and debris commonly ingested by a tornado."

[Gustywind]

I think it's a matter of semantics. Here's a couple of things I found on the internet. Both links have some really cool pictures. Check it out!

Storm Prediction Center, NWS
" What is a waterspout? A waterspout is a tornado over water -- usually meaning non-supercell tornadoes over water. Waterspouts are common along the southeast U.S. coast -- especially off southern Florida and the Keys -- and can happen over seas, bays and lakes worldwide. Although waterspouts are always tornadoes by definition; they don't officially count in tornado records unless they hit land. They are smaller and weaker than the most intense Great Plains tornadoes, but still can be quite dangerous. Waterspouts can overturn small boats, damage ships, do significant damage when hitting land, and kill people. The National Weather Service will often issue special marine warnings when waterspouts are likely or have been sighted over coastal waters, or tornado warnings when waterspouts can move onshore."


Wikipedia
"Non-tornadic

Waterspouts that are not associated with a rotating updraft of a supercell thunderstorm, are known as "nontornadic" or "fair-weather waterspouts", and are by far the most common type.

Fair-weather waterspouts occur in coastal waters and are associated with dark, flat-bottomed, developing convective cumulus towers. They usually rate no higher than EF0 on the Fujita scale, generally exhibiting winds of less than 30 m/s (67 mph). They are most frequently seen in tropical and sub-tropical climates, with upwards of 400 per year observed in the Florida Keys. They typically move slowly, if at all, since the cloud they are attached to is horizontally static, being formed by vertical convective action instead of the subduction/adduction interaction between colliding fronts. Fair-weather waterspouts are very similar in both appearance and mechanics to landspouts, and largely behave as such if they move ashore.


Tornadic

"Tornadic waterspouts", also accurately referred to as "tornadoes over water", are formed from mesocyclonic action in a manner essentially identical to traditional land-based tornadoes, but simply occurring over water. A tornado which travels from land to a body of water would also be considered a tornadic waterspout.

Since the vast majority of mesocyclonic thunderstorms occur in land-locked areas of the United States, true tornadic waterspouts are correspondingly more rare than their fair-weather counterparts. Like all tornadoes, they possess an intensity commensurate to the system which spawned them, but are generally limited in both power and lifespan by the disruptive thermo- and hydrodynamic effects bodies of water tend to have on the complex mesocyclonic action needed to sustain a powerful tornado. Water is also a great deal heavier than the dirt, dust, and debris commonly ingested by a tornado."

Good job as usual Bvigal, i appreciate the clearence of your reply , tkanks a lot!

[MGC]

I recall a few years ago a waterspout moved ashore in Long Beach, MS and damaged a few homes. It was considered a tornado once it hit the beach. Speaking of waterspouts, I was up at Lake Tahoe last year and was in an art gallery. There were seveal stunning photos of a waterspout that occured on Lake Tahoe. Alpine waterspouts exists also not just in the tropics....MGC