Ivan vs. Mobile

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PurdueWx80
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Ivan vs. Mobile

#1 Postby PurdueWx80 » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:05 pm

From the mouth of Joe Bastardi at noon - before you read, this isn't a forecast so much as an indication of what could happen in Mobile Bay if Ivan hits west of there coming in at a certain direction. This is pretty scary stuff, but things would have to happen just right (or wrong). I hope the gov/mayor is going to evacuate the city today.

A look at Frederick shows that storm hit with an angle that had the storm moving west of north. Storm surges radiate out from the hurricane and that angle had more barrier island and interruption than the angle from the south southwest. The threat of this is such that a wall of water would be pushed up a bay shaped like a funnel from an angle that would have less interruption than in a storm like Frederick. Heavy to excessive rains swelling rivers flowing into the bay would add to the water back up. In addition, such a path would be very close to the refineries in southeast Mississippi. In short, this is our ultimate fear for Ivan. The angle at New Orleans is such that this would not be that cities worst case. And while this could be as bad as it gets further east should the storm veer and go in southeast of Mobile, that would spare what would be the worst nightmare possible for this large city.


He also says the track will have implications for all the oil refineries just outside of the MS Delta - this is obvious and something all of us have considered at one point or another. Finally, he is again making references to Isidore and Lili, and is pretty confident now that Jeanne will be coming into the Gulf next week at this time. Stay tuned.
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#2 Postby Lindaloo » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:10 pm

He is correct about the refineries here in Pascagoula. They had extensive damage from past hurricanes. Most of them are shut down today. Chevron/Texaco was shut down for over a month after georges. Suffered severe damage and flooding.

We are also home to one of the largest shipbuilders, Northrop Grumman. We also have a homeport here. I watched some of the Frigates head out to sea today. Another reality check.
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#3 Postby AL Chili Pepper » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:16 pm

Well, if he wants us to take him seriously...he should at least spell Frederic right.
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#4 Postby PurdueWx80 » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:17 pm

Yeah, I can imagine that is a big reality check. It's so easy to just sit here an watch satellite images and model runs of this amazing storm - sometimes I feel like I almost get detached from reality and I don't realize how nasty this thing will be for millions of people.
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#5 Postby PurdueWx80 » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:19 pm

AL Chili Pepper wrote:Well, if he wants us to take him seriously...he should at least spell Frederic right.


Yes, because we all spell perfectly all the time. :roll:

It is funny though, he kept calling Typhoon Chaba "Typhoon Chabra" and I wanted to ring his neck (not that I'd actually do that since he could kick my @$$).
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Re: Ivan vs. Mobile

#6 Postby Skywatch_NC » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:25 pm

PurdueWx80 wrote:From the mouth of Joe Bastardi at noon - before you read, this isn't a forecast so much as an indication of what could happen in Mobile Bay if Ivan hits west of there coming in at a certain direction. This is pretty scary stuff, but things would have to happen just right (or wrong). I hope the gov/mayor is going to evacuate the city today.

A look at Frederick shows that storm hit with an angle that had the storm moving west of north. Storm surges radiate out from the hurricane and that angle had more barrier island and interruption than the angle from the south southwest. The threat of this is such that a wall of water would be pushed up a bay shaped like a funnel from an angle that would have less interruption than in a storm like Frederick. Heavy to excessive rains swelling rivers flowing into the bay would add to the water back up. In addition, such a path would be very close to the refineries in southeast Mississippi. In short, this is our ultimate fear for Ivan. The angle at New Orleans is such that this would not be that cities worst case. And while this could be as bad as it gets further east should the storm veer and go in southeast of Mobile, that would spare what would be the worst nightmare possible for this large city.


He also says the track will have implications for all the oil refineries just outside of the MS Delta - this is obvious and something all of us have considered at one point or another. Finally, he is again making references to Isidore and Lili, and is pretty confident now that Jeanne will be coming into the Gulf next week at this time. Stay tuned.


So Bastardi thinks that Jeanne will enter the GOM next week? Good grief...
hopefully not after Ivan!

Eric
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#7 Postby hurrgrl » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:35 pm

here in mobile, they are saying that it could be much worse than frederic. i live on the water, but we are not going anywhere..as my dad wants to stay here. when george hit, all of the houses on my street were flooded above the first level. when we woke up, the national guard was here in boats getting everyone out of their homes. speaking of that, my dad works for the chevron refinery and although they are shutting down today (which means millions of dollars per hour lost), i dont think they were shut down for a month after george...at least not the lab. anyways, it will be interesting here the next few days. everyone stay safe and God bless you.
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#8 Postby wxwatcher2 » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:47 pm

Hurrgrl,
Stay safe but my goodness, if you already know your street floods up to the first level of your house, why in the world stay there?

Isn't life more important than property?

again Stay safe and make the right decision for you and yours.
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#9 Postby soonertwister » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:48 pm

hurrgrl wrote: i live on the water, but we are not going anywhere..as my dad wants to stay here. when george hit, all of the houses on my street were flooded above the first level. when we woke up, the national guard was here in boats getting everyone out of their homes.


Be sure to provide the local authorities with the contact information for your next of kin.
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#10 Postby x-y-no » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:54 pm

hurrgrl wrote:here in mobile, they are saying that it could be much worse than frederic. i live on the water, but we are not going anywhere..as my dad wants to stay here. when george hit, all of the houses on my street were flooded above the first level. when we woke up, the national guard was here in boats getting everyone out of their homes. speaking of that, my dad works for the chevron refinery and although they are shutting down today (which means millions of dollars per hour lost), i dont think they were shut down for a month after george...at least not the lab. anyways, it will be interesting here the next few days. everyone stay safe and God bless you.


My God ...

Please, please convince your dad otherwise. Staying anywhere near the water in this stom is sher insanity.
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#11 Postby hurrgrl » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:55 pm

oh, we are ok at my house....the house is built up on a hill. in fact while it was flooding all of our neighbors homes, it was about 50 feet from our door in the corner of our back yard. but hopefully all of the neighbors are getting out now. i really want to leave, as does my mom, but my dad doesnt want any "looting" lol, so he refuses to leave (or even board up the windows at that - he wants to be able to look out and see it), and my mom and i dont want to leave and not know anything about him, so now my boyfriend and i are going to be staying here with my parents. like i said..it will be an interesting next few days.
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#12 Postby Lindaloo » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:56 pm

hurrgrl wrote:here in mobile, they are saying that it could be much worse than frederic. i live on the water, but we are not going anywhere..as my dad wants to stay here. when george hit, all of the houses on my street were flooded above the first level. when we woke up, the national guard was here in boats getting everyone out of their homes. speaking of that, my dad works for the chevron refinery and although they are shutting down today (which means millions of dollars per hour lost), i dont think they were shut down for a month after george...at least not the lab. anyways, it will be interesting here the next few days. everyone stay safe and God bless you.


I should have elaborated on the shutdown. Some of the refinery was shut down for a month. Sorry.
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#13 Postby MBryant » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:23 pm

THIS IS NOT A FORECAST

Some elements of a disastrous New Orleans strike are there.

1. There is very warm water on the continental shelf off New Orleans.
2. There is a well organized storm headed to their East by just about 100 miles.
3. There has been very heavy flooding in the Mississippi basin in the last month.
4. Forecasters are "almost" certain that Ivan will come inland East of New Orleans and are discounting a New Orleans strike.
5. Intensity estimates indicate a weakening storm at landfall.

What it would take.

1. Ivan maintains a speed of between 10-15 MPH rater than the forecast 9 MPH.
2. Ivan makes a last minute jog to the left ( like she did near Jamaica) ans approaches the South side of New Orleans from the East Southeast to Southeast.
3. Anticipated sheer doesn't happen to diminish Ivan's strength as he approaches the coastline.
4. Ivan completes a rapid intensification eyewall replacement cycle just offshore and he is strengthening his wind field as he comes ashore.
5. Complacency

THIS IS NOT A FORECAST

I was just noting some of the elements that could lead to catastrophic event.

Complacency is the one item that people can do something about.

Mobile Bay is a much more likely landfall point and even fewer of these unexpected items would have to happen for them to have such an event.

THIS IS NOT A FORECAST

PLEASE NOT! This NON-FORECAST requires numerous items to occur which are not expected.
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#14 Postby rtd2 » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:39 pm

Chevron/Texaco was shut down for over a month after georges. Suffered severe damage and flooding"





Yeah chevron got 6 ft, of water with geoges...They have since surrounded the entire plant with a berm
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#15 Postby PurdueWx80 » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:48 pm

MBryant wrote:THIS IS NOT A FORECAST

Some elements of a disastrous New Orleans strike are there.

1. There is very warm water on the continental shelf off New Orleans.
2. There is a well organized storm headed to their East by just about 100 miles.
3. There has been very heavy flooding in the Mississippi basin in the last month.
4. Forecasters are "almost" certain that Ivan will come inland East of New Orleans and are discounting a New Orleans strike.
5. Intensity estimates indicate a weakening storm at landfall.

What it would take.

1. Ivan maintains a speed of between 10-15 MPH rater than the forecast 9 MPH.
2. Ivan makes a last minute jog to the left ( like she did near Jamaica) ans approaches the South side of New Orleans from the East Southeast to Southeast.
3. Anticipated sheer doesn't happen to diminish Ivan's strength as he approaches the coastline.
4. Ivan completes a rapid intensification eyewall replacement cycle just offshore and he is strengthening his wind field as he comes ashore.
5. Complacency

THIS IS NOT A FORECAST

I was just noting some of the elements that could lead to catastrophic event.

Complacency is the one item that people can do something about.

Mobile Bay is a much more likely landfall point and even fewer of these unexpected items would have to happen for them to have such an event.

THIS IS NOT A FORECAST

PLEASE NOT! This NON-FORECAST requires numerous items to occur which are not expected.


So what you're saying is that you're forecasting a Cat 5 to hit New Orleans? ;)
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#16 Postby TampaBay » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:04 pm

hurrgrl wrote:oh, we are ok at my house...........my dad doesnt want any "looting" lol, so he refuses to leave (or even board up the windows at that - he wants to be able to look out and see it)


Those windows better be rated for +46 psi / -90 psi or better and be impact resistant. If not, don't be in the same room with them when winds reach Category 4 strength. You won't live to "see it".
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#17 Postby Skywatch_NC » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:10 pm

hurrgrl,

Was your Dad around for Camille? There was that hotel party going on in Pass Christian, MS and many of those that perished...did so in that waterfront hotel. :(

You, your Dad and other family members NEED to evacuate!

Eric
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#18 Postby caneman » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:20 pm

hurrgrl wrote:here in mobile, they are saying that it could be much worse than frederic. i live on the water, but we are not going anywhere..as my dad wants to stay here. when george hit, all of the houses on my street were flooded above the first level. when we woke up, the national guard was here in boats getting everyone out of their homes. speaking of that, my dad works for the chevron refinery and although they are shutting down today (which means millions of dollars per hour lost), i dont think they were shut down for a month after george...at least not the lab. anyways, it will be interesting here the next few days. everyone stay safe and God bless you.


Word to the Wise. Laave! My brother had in-laws in Cayman when this hit. My sister-in-law talked with her brther for the first time late last night. Complete and utter devastation. Will be a long time before they know how many people perished. Storm surge completely engulfed the island. A whole condo builing was washed to the other side of the road. Bank building built to strict Hurricane code are now in shambles. Many have stated that the island is now unrecognizable. Are you aware how much worse storm surge is in the Gulf? If you need more convincing, The last think my sisters brother told her was to tell people in Florida to take it seriously. I urge you to review previous post on here for reports from Cayman or search the internet. Prepare for the worse but hope for the best.. Good luck.
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#19 Postby hurrgrl » Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:19 pm

hey guys. i am happy (but not happy) to report that they have ordered us to leave (mandatory evacuation). the evacuation is supposed to begin at 4pm, so we are going to my grandparents now. now i just hate to see what it looks like when we get back. they are ordering everyone who lives south of interstate 10 in alabama and mississippi to evacuate, so hopefully everyone will stay safe! oh and my dad was here for frederic..my parents had just gotten married when he hit...and my mom always told me that they could sit and watch tornadoes all around them. now that i am old enough to understand (22) and am about to go through my first "big one", i am actually getting scared. anyways, thanks for everyone's concern!

ps...my parents live on dog river, not the gom!
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