The fallacy of calling 94L Ivan ...

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Stormsfury
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The fallacy of calling 94L Ivan ...

#1 Postby Stormsfury » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:53 pm

I have a BIG PROBLEM with this being constituted as Ivan ... a BIG one ... first of all, it was "a partial remnant" ... it's only a piece, and at that, was a 500mb vort max, NOTHING on the SFC ... the actual SFC reflection was absorbed away into the larger scale extratropical cyclone ...

I'm NOT critical of TPC and they've obviously come up with good reason to do so, but the EXACT same thing occurred with Iris crossing from the ATL into the E PAC in 2001 ...

Read Hurricane Iris's and then Tropical Storm Manuel's PRELIM REPORTS ...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/2001iris.html

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/2001manuel.html

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Manuel formed from the remnants of Atlantic Hurricane Iris, which struck southern Belize as a Category Four hurricane (on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale) early on 9 October. By 1800 UTC, the core circulation of Iris had dissipated over the mountains of eastern Mexico, while new convection was developing a short distance away over the waters of the Pacific. This area became better organized over the next 18 hours and became Tropical Depression Fifteen-E at 1200 UTC 10 October, about 175 n mi south-southeast of Acapulco, Mexico. (Note: current operational policy is that tropical cyclones crossing into another basin retain their original name; since Iris had dissipated as a tropical cyclone prior to entering the eastern North Pacific basin, the new depression was properly named Fifteen-E, rather than Iris.)


New guidelines came into effect in 2001 in regards to either naming/renaming systems crossing from the ATL into the EPAC and vice versa ... should a storm cross into the other basin, and was still the same identifiable system, the basin's name would be retained ...

And the point is in 2001, IF the core circulation was still intact on Iris, the name "IRIS" would have been retained ... but it wasn't ... there was NO CORE CIRC or SFC CIRC. Ivan's the same animal ... NO SFC reflection (which was absorbed into the larger extratropical system, just a 500mb little vort max) ... it has developed a NEW SFC reflection ... it is NOT the same circ... and therefore should NOT be getting the same name ...

SF
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#2 Postby LAwxrgal » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:55 pm

I agree, this should've been Matthew. But I guess, active as this season has been, they didn't want to use another name.
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#3 Postby crazycajuncane » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:55 pm

But it is Ivan and there is nothing more to debate about it.
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#4 Postby Guest » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:57 pm

What's my name fool?

Will the real Ivan please stand up.
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#5 Postby Stormsfury » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:57 pm

crazycajuncane wrote:But it is Ivan and there is nothing more to debate about it.


Why? Re-read the statement ... this goes against the very grain of what TPC decided with Iris in 2001 ... and the Iris to Manuel happened much quicker ...

SF
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DoctorHurricane2003

#6 Postby DoctorHurricane2003 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:57 pm

Email that to the NHC....please....maybe they will actually make the correct decision...
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#7 Postby Stormsfury » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:58 pm

DoctorHurricane2003 wrote:Email that to the NHC....please....maybe they will actually make the correct decision...


Think I will ... :D
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#8 Postby greeng13 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:58 pm

maybe they called it ivan because the way this season is going they might still get all the way to the letter "z" and if they used matthew they'd have to start with the letter "a" all over again....and how would they do that? do they go to next year's list or just recycle it and call the second a "alex"?
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#9 Postby senorpepr » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:58 pm

Stormsfury wrote:Why? Re-read the statement ... this goes against the very grain of what TPC decided with Iris in 2001 ... and the Iris to Manuel happened much quicker ...

SF


They did the same thing with TD 6 and TD 7 from last year.
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#10 Postby Guest » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:59 pm

It's going to be weird looking this storm's track up oneday....People are going to be like how the hell did it get over there.
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#11 Postby LAwxrgal » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:00 pm

^Yah I can't wait to see it! :lol:
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#12 Postby Buck » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:01 pm

It wouldn't be Iris in the Pacific anyway.
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#13 Postby Guest » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:02 pm

Ivan can also still become the most costly storm ever now.
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#14 Postby MGC » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:03 pm

The circulation was and always will be part of Ivan so IMO if it regenerates it should be Ivan...MGC
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#15 Postby SeaBrz_FL » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:04 pm

I agree with SF; renaming "spinoff" waves that regenerate opens a can of worms.

What would have happened if the "northbound half" of Ivan regenerated too? Would we have an Ivan I and an Ivan II now?
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#16 Postby DoctorHurricane2003 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:05 pm

Buck...yes it would...apparently you didn't read what stormsfury posted..

BEGINNING IN 2001...TROPICAL CYCLONES MOVING BETWEEN BASINS RETAIN THEIR NAME.

Thanks :)
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#17 Postby Stormsfury » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:05 pm

senorpepr wrote:
Stormsfury wrote:Why? Re-read the statement ... this goes against the very grain of what TPC decided with Iris in 2001 ... and the Iris to Manuel happened much quicker ...

SF


They did the same thing with TD 6 and TD 7 from last year.


BINGO!!!!!!!
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#18 Postby Guest » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:06 pm

It's possible that Ivan is really Andrew.
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#19 Postby greeng13 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:08 pm

that's funny ncwolf!
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ColdFront77

#20 Postby ColdFront77 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:08 pm

The low pressure now in the Gulf of Mexico developed from a remnant ("deposit") of Ivan, thus it makes sense to me to get it's former name back.
Last edited by ColdFront77 on Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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