Katrina - Ground Zero at home

[dhweather]

We're all ok, which is the most important thing, by far.

I can say this, there is no doubt in my mind that the NHC will evaluate
Katrina's damage, and classify her as a cat 5 at landfall. WWL in
New Orleans has reported several times that the Slidell NWS
recorded sustained 170MPH and gusts to 196MPH. Add in a 30 to
35 foot storm surge in areas, and boom, cat 5.

That's twice that Hancock County, Mississippi, has been in the eye
of a cat 5, Camille in 1969 and Katrina in 2005.

I've been home a couple of times to check on things, and we got off
relatively light. there's shingle missing from the roof, lots of trees down,
bot no major structural damage to my home.

The Mississippi Storm Magnet lost his home. Water was 8 feet in his house
and he's about 10-12 feet qbove sea level THREE MILES INLAND.
In addition, I believe that a tornado ripped about half of his roof
off, plus the roof of another home nearby.

The damage is beyond catastrophic. All of Diamondhead SOUTH of I-10
is GONE. Nothing left but pilings 12 feet high where homes once stood.
The Diamondhead yacht club roof is still there (about 35 feet in the air)
but everything under it is gone.

Hopefully we can go home next week. I'll try to check in later.


David

[LAwxrgal]

Hi DHweather (David), glad to hear you are safe and lucky, and sorry to hear about Mississippi Storm Magnet's home.

This was clearly among the most devastating hurricanes ever to make landfall in the U.S., and whether she was a 4 or 5 at landfall is purely academic at this point.

[TheShrimper]

I think anometers should get checked or recalibrated. Judging from what I have seen via the media, there are too many trees that were left undisturbed and not even defoliated to warrant those proclaimed windspeeds. The damage in MS was primarily a surge event. Business's were destroyed, yet thier flimsy signs remained intact just elevated enough to escape the surge. Knowing where Slidell is, and knowing how large Katrina was, New Orleans should not have a tree standing in the city if Kat was as strong as you claim. I know what Cat. 4 winds do to oak, maple, banyan, cuban laurel trees. They destroy them. They strip them, then they snap them of like twigs. You would not see a leave left on a tree, because there would be no trees left standing. Plus, NO even being below sea level should have seen much more structural damage than what occured. Not buying it.

[Droop12]

I agree Shrimper, and Im not trying to downplay at all the severity of the damage, but its mostly a surge event. And as we know, the NHC doesnt base the intensity on surge. Now, I know the pressure may have been near the Cat 4, 5 threshold...I doubt the winds were up there. My guess would be 130mph at landfall in MS. Another thing, I have recieved video from a buddy of mine who intercepted Katrina in Slidell, LA and the winds, while very impressive, were not to terribly bad...There may have been a few gust to 140mph but no Cat 5. Again, Im not downplaying this...I've never seen such bad surge damage. There is literally nothing left near the coast in some parts of MS. This post is JMO.

[jasons2k]

I think anometers should get checked or recalibrated. Judging from what I have seen via the media, there are too many trees that were left undisturbed and not even defoliated to warrant those proclaimed windspeeds. The damage in MS was primarily a surge event. Business's were destroyed, yet thier flimsy signs remained intact just elevated enough to escape the surge. Knowing where Slidell is, and knowing how large Katrina was, New Orleans should not have a tree standing in the city if Kat was as strong as you claim. I know what Cat. 4 winds do to oak, maple, banyan, cuban laurel trees. They destroy them. They strip them, then they snap them of like twigs. You would not see a leave left on a tree, because there would be no trees left standing. Plus, NO even being below sea level should have seen much more structural damage than what occured. Not buying it.

I agree with everything you said except the point that since NO is below sea level it should have more structural damage; in reality it's the opposite. Winds increase with elevation.

DH - glad u are OK!!!

[TheShrimper]

I agree Droop, the water was piling up the whole trek from the Dry Tortugas. I am really suprised the levees remained intact as long as they did with that prolonged bombardment of water into Ponchatrain. My post wasnt meant to downplay the catastrophic results that took place either. The same scenario occured during Dennis in St. Marks and Carrabelle Beach, only that this was a 1000X worse. When you have a 5 in the middle of the gulf moving slowly north, there in no where for the water to go. In this case, MS and AL were in the crosshairs unfortunately. If Katrina, with her size and stregnth had taken Andrews path, they would still be rebuilding SE FL., from Ft. Laud., south to Key Largo.

[Derek Ortt]

what elevation were the obs at? Also, what type of anamometer did they use? If it is a hot wire anamometer, it is worthless in heavy rain events


There was a lot of wind damage as well in Mississippi, especially in the inland areas such as Hattiesburg and Laurel, which took the eye wall. Biloxi and Gulfport did not get the eye wall; thus, the wind damage is less

[f5]

We're all ok, which is the most important thing, by far.

I can say this, there is no doubt in my mind that the NHC will evaluate
Katrina's damage, and classify her as a cat 5 at landfall. WWL in
New Orleans has reported several times that the Slidell NWS
recorded sustained 170MPH and gusts to 196MPH. Add in a 30 to
35 foot storm surge in areas, and boom, cat 5.

That's twice that Hancock County, Mississippi, has been in the eye
of a cat 5, Camille in 1969 and Katrina in 2005.

I've been home a couple of times to check on things, and we got off
relatively light. there's shingle missing from the roof, lots of trees down,
bot no major structural damage to my home.

The Mississippi Storm Magnet lost his home. Water was 8 feet in his house
and he's about 10-12 feet qbove sea level THREE MILES INLAND.
In addition, I believe that a tornado ripped about half of his roof
off, plus the roof of another home nearby.

The damage is beyond catastrophic. All of Diamondhead SOUTH of I-10
is GONE. Nothing left but pilings 12 feet high where homes once stood.
The Diamondhead yacht club roof is still there (about 35 feet in the air)
but everything under it is gone.

Hopefully we can go home next week. I'll try to check in later.


David

Does a NWS recorded wind speed make it offical and will the NHC try to poo poo it?

[Frank2]

Written summaries usually list obs from official recording stations first (whether taken by a person or by automated equipment), and then will also mention observations taken at unofficial observing sites.

The problem is that the equipment for an unofficial site might not be properly calibrated, so, as in the case of Hurricane Andrew, the equipment is sometimes tested to see if it was functioning properly, and then a decision is made whether to accept or discount the observed wind speed.

In the case of the New Orleans NWSFO, a recorded wind speed is probably correct - however, the issue might be that the radio station received inaccurate information from someone other than those who work at that office. I'm sure that the accuracy of this observation will be easy to determine, as they analyze observations made at that time.

Here's the preliminary storm report (as they mention, it's still being updated):

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/res ... .html#rain

Frank

[cajungal]

TO DH: My grandparents, uncle, and 10-year old cousin live near you. They live in Kiln. My dad and my uncle when check on their home last week. We had a strong feeling that they no longer had a home. But, can you believe it? Their home did not have a scratch! Not a single shingle off the roof! Just lots of trees down, but that was it. I could not believe it because the NE quad went right over them. They live down a rural country road out in the boonies in Kiln. No neighbors right nearby. And where there house sits, it is really steep and hilly. Maybe that is what saved them. How knows? The only very minor damage they had was a little small piece of wood missing from the lining near their roof. They were so rushed up to evacuate that they did not even have a chance to board the windows. My uncle is in the navy seabees and it was late before they got to leave. They are presently staying in central Louisiana in a very rural town called Hessmer near Marksville. My grandparents have a house there. They were trying to sell it before moving to MS to be with my uncle, but it never sold. So, they are staying there until power is restored to their home in Kiln. They even enrolled my 10-year old little cousin in school over there so she won't be so far behind. Glad you are doing okay.

[Brent]

Glad your house is relatively OK. I don't believe it was a Cat 5 though, understand, there was DEFINTELY a Cat 5 surge, but I have seen zero evidence of Cat 5 winds, and VERY little of Cat 4 winds in MS.

[Rainband]

Glad your ok

[vbhoutex]

I have heard of at least one unofficial reading of a 160 mph gust in Laurel. Timnms told me about it but didn't give any other information so I have no idea how it was obtained. Lindaloo in Pascagoula said they had Cat4 winds in that area and she says she is guaging it by the damage, not just what she saw happen. She does know the difference between surge and wind damage too. Some of the pictures and video I have seen tell me there were Cat4 winds along much of the MS Coast. I do have to say that at this point the pictures and video I have seen do not seem to bear out Cat5 winds except possibly in a very small area right at landfall, but I am not sure how much of what I was seeing was surge damage and what was wind damage in those video/pictures. It was very hard to discern, but there were certainly trees snapped en masse and what was left standing was stripped. As was stated, it really doesn't matter what the intensity was at this point because down the road that will all be "officially worked out and reported. What matters now is getting everyone back on their feet.

[f5]

We can debate the intenisty later but one thing we do agree on is that she destroyed lives , decades of work memories that will live on the same way Camille did.

[Derek Ortt]

it is very important to determine the exact intensity of this, and Camielle, so that the "Camielle Syndrome" does not happen again, where people thought that because they survived Camielle, that they could easily survive Katrina

[Scorpion]

IMO 150 mph at Grande Isle and 140 mph at MS Coast. Just my two cents.

[Lowpressure]

My father in Ocean Springs is a long time weather enthusiast, he estimated gusts to 155 in Ocean Springs. He is basing it on Camille and Frederick experience, all weather equipment he had was in his home, he evacuated no data was saved due to powere outage. I know this post is not very scientific, but I would trust his estimate as pretty accurate. It supports a solid cat 4 in his area.

[beachbum_al]

Glad to hear that you are okay. My husband was down in Waveland last Monday and he said he has never seen anything quite like the destruction. One thing he did have to say was that the people down there are remarkable despite everything they have gone through. They find the good out of everything despite what they have gone through. I saw a few of the pictures and was just shocked.

I think Katrina will be classified as a Cat 5 later on.

[wxmann_91]

Well, to end the debate on Katrina, the reanalysis I think has been completed, and the intensity level was changed at all three landfalls (I can't tell you anymore, you have to click the link . Take a look at this site and scroll down to Katrina, look on the rightmost column.

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2005/2005-atlantic-trop-cyclones.html

(PS It's interesting how the reanalysis for Dennis' landfall in Cuba isn't finished yet)

[JtSmarts]

Wonder why FL landfall was changed from 70 to 65 kts?