A question about New Orleans...

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tallbunch
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A question about New Orleans...

#1 Postby tallbunch » Mon May 14, 2007 8:49 am

Everytime I hear news reports of more rebuilding there, I just have one question: Why build there again? This will happen again, I'm sure of it.
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#2 Postby pojo » Mon May 14, 2007 8:53 am

People are stubborn and don't like change... This is happening throughtout NOLA, and all over the gulf coast.
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#3 Postby LSU2001 » Mon May 14, 2007 9:04 am

Why rebuild anywhere if a natural disaster strikes??
Suppose we don't rebuild Greensburg KS, or San Francisco after the big earthquake, or Homestead FLA??

The reason we rebuild is because any place that is destroyed is someones home and they want to stay. I get so tired of these threads that act like the Gulf Coast should be written off and should not be populated. Perhaps the question should be "What can we do to make the Gulf Coast Safer and less prone to hurricane damage?"

Just my 2 cents
Tim
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#4 Postby loro-rojo » Mon May 14, 2007 9:10 am

I agree with the above post. Most places in the world are prone to some form of a natural disaster. If cities and towns were not rebuilt after disasters, most of the cities in the world wouldn't exist.

Why rebuilt New Orleans, Homestead, Punta Gorda, San Francisco... the list is endless.
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#5 Postby Janie2006 » Mon May 14, 2007 9:16 am

LSU2001 wrote:Why rebuild anywhere if a natural disaster strikes??
Suppose we don't rebuild Greensburg KS, or San Francisco after the big earthquake, or Homestead FLA??

The reason we rebuild is because any place that is destroyed is someones home and they want to stay. I get so tired of these threads that act like the Gulf Coast should be written off and should not be populated. Perhaps the question should be "What can we do to make the Gulf Coast Safer and less prone to hurricane damage?"

Just my 2 cents
Tim


Yep.
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#6 Postby Shelby6977 » Mon May 14, 2007 9:30 am

I fully agree. If it was YOUR home would you want to pack it in and leave? I for one wouldnt want to. This has been my home for 30 years, I would want to rebuild. My personal opinion.
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#7 Postby mitchell » Mon May 14, 2007 9:39 am

Shelby6977 wrote:I fully agree. If it was YOUR home would you want to pack it in and leave? I for one wouldnt want to. This has been my home for 30 years, I would want to rebuild. My personal opinion.


Exactly, even if i wanted to pack it in and leave, many simply do not have the financial cabability to walk away from the only thing they own and relocate to some place safer. I'm amazed that this question - why do they rebuild? - keeps coming up as if it's some sort of academic decision.
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Derek Ortt

#8 Postby Derek Ortt » Mon May 14, 2007 10:12 am

return period for Greenberg is far less frequent than the coastal flood plain

Same thing applies to a California earthquake. The two arguments are not the same
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#9 Postby MGC » Mon May 14, 2007 10:25 am

So what is an accetable return period for a natural disaster? We all know San Fran is going to have another great quake like the Miami area is going to have another big hurricane that puts Miami Beach under water again. Katrina was the worst hurricane to hit this region since the white man settled this area over 300 years ago.....MGC
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#10 Postby alicia-w » Mon May 14, 2007 10:31 am

Shelby6977 wrote:I fully agree. If it was YOUR home would you want to pack it in and leave? I for one wouldnt want to. This has been my home for 30 years, I would want to rebuild. My personal opinion.


quite frankly, that's exactly what we did. in addition to the hurricane season stresses, we were tired of paying outrageous insurance premiums, outrageous taxes, and having little to no beach access because the developers are building these monstrosities that block more and more public beach access.

so off to the mountains we went and we havent regretted it yet. someone who loves the south and the beach front lifestyle is certainly welcome to occupy my space there.
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#11 Postby vbhoutex » Mon May 14, 2007 10:51 am

Even though I understand the question and the reasoning behind the question, consider this. Let's take the emotion out of the answers and what have we got. ECONOMICS!!!!! Even though literally billions of dollars of infrastructure was damaged or destroyed, there is still billions of dollars of the same that wasn't destroyed and is useable or repairable. You can't just throw that away. This also includes the human economy of jobs etc. NOLA is one of the largest ports in the US and the gateway to the MS river basin. You can't just pick all of that up and move it elsewhere and start over. We are talking history here as well as current economics. This applies to both NOLA and the MGC. I can even extend this thinking to our area of SE TX. Rita destroyed a lot of infrastructure including refineries or parts of them. Currently under consideration is building a huge new refinery in Port Arthur, TX, which was virtually ground zero for Rita. Though these monster hurricanes will happen again, we don't know where or when they are going hit. We can't live our lives in fear of what ifs.
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#12 Postby HollynLA » Mon May 14, 2007 11:16 am

I do think it's crazy for anyone who flooded up to the rooftop to build a home again on flat ground but I do think the homes should be rebuilt, just raised off the ground. If the homes could avoid the flood problem and only deal with wind damage, things would be much easier to recover from next time around. However, there are still some that are rebuilding from the ground up, literally from the ground up which is foolish. NOLA and surrounding areas have always known this could happen, it did, and many didn't learn much from it.
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Berwick Bay

#13 Postby Berwick Bay » Mon May 14, 2007 11:25 am

New Orleans (like much of the Gulf Coast) lies within the domain of the beast (hurricanes). This land does not really belong to us, as much as it does to the storms. Isn't that really true. If a mountain lion mauls you while hiking in a wilderness area do you blame the mountain lion, or try to get rid of all mountain lions in the wilderness? No that territory is his by right. He represents a part of the fullness and goodness of the earth. The same with hurricanes. They are born from the ocean and atmosphere and the coastal areas are their's by right. They are a part of the goodness of creation.
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Re: A question about New Orleans...

#14 Postby mitchell » Mon May 14, 2007 11:33 am

tallbunch wrote:Everytime I hear news reports of more rebuilding there, I just have one question: Why build there again? This will happen again, I'm sure of it.


vbhoutex wrote:Even though literally billions of dollars of infrastructure was damaged or destroyed, there is still billions of dollars of the same that wasn't destroyed and is useable or repairable. You can't just throw that away...You can't just pick all of that up and move it elsewhere and start over


I think these are the two extreme ends of the argument...I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between "why rebuild at all?" and "you can't move elsewhere and start over"

Somewhere in between is a policy where the government removes the incentives that keep people in high hazard areas..i.e. subsidized flood insurance, disaster aid that seems aimed at putting infrastructure back together as quicklyas possible, tax incentives and tax policies which keep businesses from moving (i.e. tax incentives to stay in place following disasters) when repeated flood damage may be sending them a natural "market force". Maybe even something as progressive as tax policies which REWARD businesses which operate in a disaster resistant manner, and allow workers to live in safer locations, commensurate with the savings to taxpayers in the form of reduced disaster relief and storm related unemployment.
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#15 Postby mitchell » Mon May 14, 2007 11:38 am

HollynLA wrote:I do think it's crazy for anyone who flooded up to the rooftop to build a home again on flat ground but I do think the homes should be rebuilt, just raised off the ground.
this was a code requirement that has been widely waived in many NOLA neighborhoods under pressure from homeowners resistant to the increased cost of elevating. Very disturbing...not only did we not learn from the disaster, we ignored lessons already learned.
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#16 Postby Stratusxpeye » Mon May 14, 2007 11:43 am

Derek Ortt wrote:return period for Greenberg is far less frequent than the coastal flood plain

Same thing applies to a California earthquake. The two arguments are not the same


Completely agree with this statement. Not the same at all. Gulf coast is another story as well. But NOLA Will always have it's problems. I don't agree with not rebuilding at all but they should take the correct precautions to prevent this from happening again before anything is ever rebuilt.
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#17 Postby JonathanBelles » Mon May 14, 2007 12:06 pm

This is just my stand. If a major hurricane comes through pinellas county and everything is gone, I will NOT move back to pinellas county. I would probably move back to the northeast.
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#18 Postby vbhoutex » Mon May 14, 2007 12:35 pm

Stratusxpeye wrote:
Derek Ortt wrote:return period for Greenberg is far less frequent than the coastal flood plain

Same thing applies to a California earthquake. The two arguments are not the same


Completely agree with this statement. Not the same at all. Gulf coast is another story as well. But NOLA Will always have it's problems. I don't agree with not rebuilding at all but they should take the correct precautions to prevent this from happening again before anything is ever rebuilt.


Pretty much agree wholeheartedly with the bolded statement. The caveat is, of course, what do you do to keep it from ever happening again. Is any kind of precautions "failsafe"? At a minimum, imo, it should be required that the previously flooded areas whether along the coastline or on a river, either truly be protected to the best extent possible(without all the graft and corruption that apparently helped cause some of NOLA's problems(well documented diversion of funds etc.)) or if people/businesses insist on remaining in theses areas(yes including barrier islands), then they be required to bear the cost of rebuilding everytime they are damaged/destroyed by surge/flooding.

Of course then along comes the argument that Katrina was a once in a lifetime event(I PRAY IT WAS!!!). Who would have ever expected the surges that happened in Pascagoula, Mobile Bay, etc.? The surges these areas well away from the storm center experienced were nothing short of PHENOMENAL at a minimum!!!
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#19 Postby BigO » Mon May 14, 2007 12:42 pm

One thing you all seem to forget is that Katrina did very little damage to the city itself. The weak levee system gave way and innundated the city with salt water out of Lake Pontchartrain.
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#20 Postby Steve » Mon May 14, 2007 12:43 pm

>>return period for Greenberg is far less frequent than the coastal flood plain
>>Same thing applies to a California earthquake. The two arguments are not the same

While not a strawman, it's not really that either. What's the return period for 80% home devastation from a hurricane? Not much (if ever).

>>Why rebuild...

Do you enjoy having energy at your house and food? Because without New Orleans and SE LA in general, many of you would be corresponding through the mail rather than on an internet forum. And let's don't forget about the port. Maybe other ports could step in and pick up the slack, but the mouth of the MS River pretty much allows water and container transportation all through the central, interior United States. It also allows exports to go out making some Americans more money.

And then there's the part about not wanting the entirety of the United States to turn into McAmerica. The more diversity of culture and ideas we have, the better this nation is. I can go to anytown USA in almost anywhere in the country and find a Texas Roadhouse Grill, Wal-Mart, Chilli's, McDonalds and whatever. Some people understand that a little more variety to McCulture might actually be desirable.

On the other hand, if the area offered no resources and was basically some podunk created playland, oh say like Hilton Head, SC (where the one thing that stands out more than anything else is the volume of garden mulch), it probably wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to rebuild it. Besides offering a vacation destination for tourists and a place where preppy-styled white people can move or retire, it doesn't really contribute anything earth shattering in the way of culture or resources to the rest of America. I'm not discounting the contributions of coastal South Carolina (Low Country cooking and such), but while we definitely know that the country is much less without New Orleans, I really don't think Hilton Head Island can make that claim.

:)

Steve
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