Is TS BARRY really a TS or....

[jaxfladude]

....another Andrea should have or should not have been naming debate?

[x-y-no]

No question in my mind - this deserved to be named - Andrea didn't.

[artist]

definately think he should have been named - it is close enough that people need to be prepared, particularly if there were some sudden intensification, although unlikely there could be a whole lot.

[cycloneye]

The recon data was strong for the system to be named.

[AL Chili Pepper]

It seems to have met all the criteria. Closed low, warm core, etc. No questioning it to me....a typical early season sheared storm.

[Aquawind]

If the recon data supported the warm core and surface winds..Barry it be.

[Downdraft]

Would have been crazy not to name it this was a tropical storm and still is. What it will become shortly has no bearing on what it is now. Vortex slammed the door on this debate it is tropical and it met the criteria.

[chadtm80]

If it walks like a duck....

[Noles2006]

It's obvious from your posts this season you have an agenda... drop it on this board, please.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

I also feel that Andrea earned its name to, because recon did find a weak warm core=subtropical. But it really earned it after it was disaclared about a day or two later. I feel that this system is soild in if you look at the data theres no question.

[TampaSteve]

All I know is we are getting some much-needed rain here in the Tampa Bay area.

[Berwick Bay]

Its a Tropical Storm. I checked the loop shortly after the naming, no doubt there. Very respectable low level circulation with heavy thunderstorms firing just NE of center. As the NHC said, and I also agree, the determining factor were those new and heavy storms firing at the point of center. I also have no problem with the Andrea sub-tropical designation.

[brunota2003]

I have no problem with either. Both deserved to be named. If it is one, regardless of how long it is around or its future/past...then by golly it is one!

[wjs3]

Anyone think NWSFO Miami disagreed with this call (although they are in the same building with the NHC!)--from their AFD:

THE HIGHLY SHEARED AND ASYMMETRIC DISTURBANCE IN THE SOUTHEASTERN
GULF HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO TS BARRY. ...


I wonder if they were inon the classification discussion that must have happened at the NHC and lost the argument?

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

THIS WAS A TROPICAL STORM, they found a warm core with 60 plus knot flight level winds at one time. NO question at all.

[wjs3]

THIS WAS A TROPICAL STORM, they found a warm core with 60 plus knot flight level winds at one time. NO question at all.

Hey, Matt--you're not YELLING at me are you? I just thought that was a funny thing to say in an AFD.

WJS3

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

THIS WAS A TROPICAL STORM, they found a warm core with 60 plus knot flight level winds at one time. NO question at all.

Hey, Matt--you're not YELLING at me are you? I just thought that was a funny thing to say in an AFD.

WJS3

Nope not yelling at you Wjs3.

[wjs3]

Oh, OK. Sorry.

Hey, I think I am going to start a "what's a warm core" thread over in the "question" forum when I have a second. It's a little quieter over there, and maybe we all can spell it out for everyone who is not sure exactly what is meant by warm and cold core (and why that matters).

Or has it been done already somewhere on the boards?

WJS3

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Difference between warm and cold core low pressure systems...The warm core or tropical system has a warm core, meaning warmer inside then outside. Warmer air=lighter or rising air...So the air rises inside or close to the LLC. Which the LLC is a closed surface wind field, see the LLC forms because of the difference of temperature grad between inside to outside of the system,,,also rise as it moves towards the center of low pressure. So when you see convection firing near the center of a low pressure area; you know that it is a low you need to watch closely.

On the other hand a cold core low pressure area is formed by temperature range from southeast of the system=warm and moist. To dryier and cooler to the northwest of the low pressure area. Also turn of the earth has something to do with both kinds of low pressure, which moves there winds to the right on our side of the planet. A frontal system forms because of the temperature difference.

Subtropical has a broader wind field and more is a hyrid system. Normally has only a slight warm core...In can have a upper level low instead of the tropical cyclone Anticyclone. Also cyclones(tropical) have there lowest pressures near the surface=LLC. While cold core has it off the surface normally.

So yes both system deserved there names.

[wjs3]

Matt:

I have to disagree--and this is part of the reason I want to ask the question elsewhere, so we can really talk about it.

The warm core in warm core sysstem, as I understand it, is a result of compressional warming form subsidence--SINKING air, not lighter or rising air. All that air converging in convection near the center exits at the top and there is compensating subsidence.

Also, I learned that the LLC forms because low pressure forms--driven by convection firing and lowering pressure (indivisual cells organizesand helps to lower surface pressure)...the resulting temperature gradient is a result of the convection organizing and forming a low center-the temperature gradient does not cause the LLC, but is a result of the typical process for tropical development as far as I understnad it.

And a cold core low is formed by a trough aloft (usually a short wave to go with it) causing divergence aloft. As air exits the column aloft due to the vorticity changes aloft, the total column weight (and surface pressure) drops. But this sort of low forms near a baroclinic zone--temperature gradients are present.

The pro mets usually step in and correct my oversimplifications at this point (Steve or Wxman57 HELP!)

Subtropical as I understand it has the characteristics of both tropical and extratropical cyclones (I know you know this, Matt, but for those who haven't read it: http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/A6.html

and

https://courseware.e-education.psu.edu/ ... lones.html)

WJS3