YOU ARE BEING LIED TO

[DoctorHurricane2003]

You can read up on the Louisiana governor's position on these matters here:

http://gov.louisiana.gov/

I suggest everyone look at that website. It even explains the ending of contraflow that everyone was having aneurisms about earlier.

[x-y-no]

Obviously you haven't read up on the law of this country. The federal government does not have the right to step in prior to a natural disaster. Please try and educate yourself before posting this kind of crap.

Actually, that's not entirely true. The government declared a state of emergency before the storm actually hit so they had the ability to pre-position assets like FEMA there.

Before you say "not true" how about reading the thread. We were talking about Federal Military action. The Federal Government cannot put military troops on the ground until the Govenor requests it. FEMA did start the ball rolling early. Where do you think the Coast Guard crews came from that flew all day Monday and every day since? Where did the Navy ships come from that are off-shore with more on the way?

Well ... the Bataan was there by Tuesday, as best I can determine (it is based in the Gulf) But The Comfort, the Iwo Jima, the Shreveport, the Tortuga and the Grapple didn't depart Virginia before Wednesday.

It's not at all clear to me why these ships could not have departed several days earlier than that, given what was known. The federal government does not require a request from state government to do that.

As I've said before, there's plenty of blame to go around - top to bottom.

[artist]

the city did not flooding until Monday - it was then that the other ships started preparing to leave - it takes 3 days to get there. They more than likely would NOT have been needed if the flooding had not occurred!

[NFLnut]

I read the frickin thread.

.. and ..

[vacanechaser]

The same situation applies to Louisiana. The governor has done everything she can. What amazes me the most is that everyone who wants the blame to lay on the LA governor has mentioned that it was her and the New Orleans mayor's fault that people chose not to leave....excuse me? If people see a category 3, 4, or 5, and decide not to leave...it doesn't matter how much you tell them to leave, they aren't going to. People are stubborn, period. The blame for those people do not lie on Blanco or Nagin, but it does lie on the people who were idiotic enough not to leave.

Well to start, how do you know that most people got the word.. As bad as things are going right now and those people being left i the dark, maybe the word to these people didnt make it... Seems horrible to say in this day and time.. However, I dont think that is the case... Most of the people I talk to on a regular basis have no clue as to what a hurricane is, or does... It is sad to see this in 2005 that people dont know the difference between a hurricane or tornado...

Either way, the NHC statements and other NWS statements sya to listen to your local officials for conditions and effects expected in your spacific area... Most people do wait to get word from their local officials on situations like these... He drug his feet on the order to leave and didnot give those people enough time.... Period... Hell, besides when it was given we saw the traffic situation.. How the roads were backed up and not moving for hours.... People would rather wait it out at home than to try and survive should they be caught out in the worst trying to leave... you want the facts, 72 hours to evcuate the city.... He gave them less than 24 hours.... So excuse me if I think he is a sorry excuse for a mayor when officials asked him much earlier than that to get it underway and he said NO!!

Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com

[x-y-no]

the city did not flooding until Monday - it was then that the other ships started preparing to leave - it takes 3 days to get there. They more than likely would NOT have been needed if the flooding had not occurred!

By Friday 5am we knew we were dealing with a landfalling major somewhere in the NE Gulf, with NO in the cone. By Friday 11pm, all model guidance had converged on a landfall in Louisiana or Mississippi. The confidence on that forecast was high.

It was well understood that if a major storm went over NO, there was high risk of flooding. There was no need to wait and see if it actually happened before making all preparations to get to sea, and even to take to sea. At worst, they could simply have returned to port if the forecast failed to materialize.

[SkeetoBite]

Click this link, then tell me when the people who decide to evacuate knew what they should do:

Katrina Discussion Archive, with maps

[FloridaHawk82]

the city did not flooding until Monday - it was then that the other ships started preparing to leave - it takes 3 days to get there. They more than likely would NOT have been needed if the flooding had not occurred!

By Friday 5am we knew we were dealing with a landfalling major somewhere in the NE Gulf, with NO in the cone. By Friday 11pm, all model guidance had converged on a landfall in Louisiana or Mississippi. The confidence on that forecast was high.

It was well understood that if a major storm went over NO, there was high risk of flooding. There was no need to wait and see if it actually happened before making all preparations to get to sea, and even to take to sea. At worst, they could simply have returned to port if the forecast failed to materialize.

Understood, and your post actually supports the post directly above yours. A MUCH larger problem than ships is the fact that the Mayor of NO repelled pleas to start the evac on Friday, and like you said, we all knew it on Friday.

[chrisnnavarre]

Well...the failure experienced was being discussed in the New Orleans press one year ago... note the date of the article 9/28/04.

http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatc ... story.html

"Among emergency specialists, "mitigation" -- the measures taken in advance to minimize the damage caused by natural disasters -- is a crucial part of the strategy to save lives and cut recovery costs. But since 2001, key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, have been slashed and tossed aside. FEMA's Project Impact, a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration, has been canceled outright. Federal funding of post-disaster mitigation efforts designed to protect people and property from the next disaster has been cut in half. Communities across the country must now compete for pre-disaster mitigation dollars.

As a result, some state and local emergency managers say, it's become more difficult to get the equipment and funds they need to most effectively deal with disasters. In Louisiana, requests for flood mitigation funds were rejected by FEMA this summer."

[x-y-no]

Understood, and your post actually supports the post directly above yours. A MUCH larger problem than ships is the fact that the Mayor of NO repelled pleas to start the evac on Friday, and like you said, we all knew it on Friday.

I said, much earlier in this thread, that I agreed with AFM's point regarding failures on the part of both the mayor and the governor, as well as individuals who could have evacuated but chose not to.

What I am disagreeing with is what I perceive to be attempts to lay all the criticism there and no higher.

[HurriCat]

It was well understood that if a major storm went over NO, there was high risk of flooding. There was no need to wait and see if it actually happened before making all preparations to get to sea, and even to take to sea. At worst, they could simply have returned to port if the forecast failed to materialize.

Then why are we such heartless monsters to ask the same of the people who live there? THEY could choose to not wait for the hit, to LEAVE, and then "simply have returned" if things were okay? Why is it expected that the RESCUERS prepare and be ready, but NOT the people themselves?

Seriously, are you even in one of these states? If not, it only strengthens my point. YOU made the observation I quoted - YOU see the logic of planning. It's the LEVEL at which this vision and planning has to occur.

Some say it has to be the authorities, but I say that it absolutely first must fall to the individual.

Even the squirrels store food for when there isn't any.

[x-y-no]

It was well understood that if a major storm went over NO, there was high risk of flooding. There was no need to wait and see if it actually happened before making all preparations to get to sea, and even to take to sea. At worst, they could simply have returned to port if the forecast failed to materialize.

Then why are we such heartless monsters to ask the same of the people who live there? THEY could choose to not wait for the hit, to LEAVE, and then "simply have returned" if things were okay? Why is it expected that the RESCUERS prepare and be ready, but NOT the people themselves?

Seriously, are you even in one of these states? If not, it only strengthens my point. YOU made the observation I quoted - YOU see the logic of planning. It's the LEVEL at which this vision and planning has to occur.

Some say it has to be the authorities, but I say that it absolutely first must fall to the individual.

Even the squirrels store food for when there isn't any.

Read the totality of my comments instead of just the selected bits you wish to attack.

[Dean4Storms]

I just heard an interview, recorded today, of our mayor Ray Nagin. He claims that everything the governor, FEMA, and the Dept. of Homeland Security director says are lies. He called it, and I quote... "Spin for the cameras". He says that he is getting the run-around by everyone, including the president. He says that he has witnessed people dying in front of him. He has been told that help will be arriving for the past three days. People are being found on their roofs DEAD. We are not getting to these people. This is an embarrassment, and I am ashamed of this country.

Yep ,it is everybody elses fault, not any blame goes to a mayor, officials or the people in NO who have been warned for years of this potential disaster. Yet we see Buses in NO never used to evacuate and we see thousands of people who CHOSE THEMSELVES TO IGNORE the MANDATORY EVACUATION ORDERS and thus put themselves and the people having to come to their rescue in life and death danger!

The only embarrassment I have is the people who ignored that a CAT. 5 Hurricane was bearing down on them!

[NFLnut]

You know, this "blame starts at the top" nonsense is really starting to get my goat! "Some" here are so quick to point blame at the President and his Cabinet. Heck, I read a nonsensical story the other night about how .. ohmyGod! .. Condi Rice was seen Weds night yucking it up at "Spamalot" on Broadway, "all the while suffering was going on in NO." As if Condi was the reason there was suffering! I would like to point out that even Doctors, after a day of treating terminally ill patients go home and turn on the football game, or go to a show themselves. I would bet that the Sec'y of State has a much tougher day, on any given day, than ANY of us! Give it a rest!

There is just as much blame to be put on the Mayor of NOLA for not calling for evacuations until it was too late, a full day-and-a-half AFTER the NHC advised him to do so. Regardless, what's done is done, and the blame game is senseless, and really gets us nowhere!

[x-y-no]

You know, this "blame starts at the top" nonsense is really starting to get my goat!

And the "there's no blame at the top" stuff gets my goat. So I guess we're even.

[inotherwords]

NFLNut, the country feels better about their leaders if they exhibit a sense of seriousness during a crisis. Like cutting short a vacation or rescheduling a play for a bit. Perception is reality to a lot of people, and I don't think GW nor Condi did the right thing under the circumstances. This is one of the biggest crises in US history and there's no excuse for not at least looking like you're in charge even if you've delegated well.

There's an image floating around the Internet of GWB playing the guiltar at a fun event in San Diego the other day juxtaposed against an image of Nero. He should not have put himself in that position. He should have known better and exhibited a little more decorum and respect for the gravity of what was going on. People were dying by the hundreds at that very moment, and they're both yukking it up. This is not "nonsensica,l" it's very serious to many people. Not only was it disrespectful, it was shameful.

[RichG]

Well I am real concerned about when the country "feels better". How about getting those people on the school buses and out of the city. Now those people are instead floating in the streets. Please check your poitical agendas at the door please. The people died because they were in the city while hundreds of school buses sat there and now are rusting in the water. I think freinds and family of those people who died would feel better right now if they were alive!

[FloridaHawk82]

NFLNut, the country feels better about their leaders if they exhibit a sense of seriousness during a crisis. Like cutting short a vacation or rescheduling a play for a bit. Perception is reality to a lot of people, and I don't think GW nor Condi did the right thing under the circumstances. This is one of the biggest crises in US history and there's no excuse for not at least looking like you're in charge even if you've delegated well.

There's an image floating around the Internet of GWB playing the guiltar at a fun event in San Diego the other day juxtaposed against an image of Nero. He should not have put himself in that position. He should have known better and exhibited a little more decorum and respect for the gravity of what was going on. People were dying by the hundreds at that very moment, and they're both yukking it up. This is not "nonsensica,l" it's very serious to many people. Not only was it disrespectful, it was shameful.

I don't blindly believe the Prez does everything correct (or ANY politician or citizen for that matter), but I've seen nothing BUT seriousness from Bush. I believ that he, his staff, the Governor's of the affected states, and the local officials are trying their very best with what they have. It is always easy to play blame games when we're not in their shoes.

[NFLnut]

You know, this "blame starts at the top" nonsense is really starting to get my goat!

And the "there's no blame at the top" stuff gets my goat. So I guess we're even.

If it makes you feel better about yourself to sit in your comfy chair, in air conditioning, pointing fingers, when you have absolutely no knowledge of what you're ranting about .. then knock yourself out!

[x-y-no]

You know, this "blame starts at the top" nonsense is really starting to get my goat!

And the "there's no blame at the top" stuff gets my goat. So I guess we're even.

If it makes you feel better about yourself to sit in your comfy chair, in air conditioning, pointing fingers, when you have absolutely no knowledge of what you're ranting about .. then knock yourself out!

You don't know me, and you have no idea what I do and do not have knowledge of, and yet you feel qualified to make assumptions about my motivations and launch ad hominem attacks on my alleged "ranting."

Quote the specifics of my alleged"ranting" you disagree with, please. And take into account the totality of my comments in this thread (if you have the intellectual integrity to do so). Or else stick it in your ear.

Good day!