Don't Give Up on New Orleans

[inotherwords]

Has Galveston had a direct Cat. 4 or 5 hit since 1900? I can't recall.

Regardless, if Galveston was hit the waters would recede, though. I am not sure the situation is the same.

[Patrick99]

A very eloquent statment however I must disagree. The city is in a bowl surrounded by water. It is already considered a very poor city. Obvisouly poorly run. What would have happened if this storm was a cat 5 and hit the city straight on? It isn't worth the lives in a future storm and money.

I think the area should have been abandoned the first time it happened a hundred or so years ago. I guess Betsy wasn't enough motivation, either.

I remember my visits to New Orleans, standing near the Mississippi, watching ships float by *above* me. My thoughts? "This is completely ridiculous."

South Florida is pretty ridiculous in its own right, and South Beach is the epitome of it....Phoenix is a pretty moronic location for a city...but New Orleans? That city sinks and sags further down even during the BEST of times. There's going to come a day when that place will have to be abandoned. Perhaps that day has already come.

[Mattie]

Take a look at the economics that South Louisiana brings to the table -

Waterborne Commerce
Louisiana's five deep water ports handle more than 457 million tons of U.S. waterborne commerce a year, including nearly half of all American grain exports. Four of the eleven largest U.S. ports (in foreign commerce tonnage) are located in Louisiana. In addition to grain, other cargoes include chemicals, coal and general cargo. Some 100 steamship lines and barge companies serve the more than 4,500 seagoing vessels and 100,000 barges that ply the state's waterways each year. Trade is conducted with 191 countries around the world.

Petroleum Refining
Louisiana is the second largest refiner of petroleum in the U.S. Nineteen refineries--including one of the largest and most diversified in the world--produce lubricants and fuels, including 16.9 billion gallons (64 billion liters) of gasoline a year.

Petrochemical Production
Louisiana's petrochemical industry manufactures one-quarter of America's petrochemicals, including basic chemicals, plastics and fertilizers. Annual production by the nearly 100 petrochemical facilities operating in the state is valued at more than $19.6 billion.

Natural Resources
Louisiana's natural resources include 11 percent of U.S. petroleum reserves and 19 percent of the country's reserves of natural gas. It also is the largest producer of salt in America and a major producer of sulphur, lime and silica sands. In addition, Louisiana has an estimated 310-330 million tons of lignite. The total value of all mineral production in the state is the second highest in the U.S.


There is absolutely no way that these can be "picked up and moved" and New Orleans will be rebuilt - no doubt!!

[Recurve]

Couple things to keep in mind: The graphics are not literally accurate -- the profile is hugely exaggerated. There are areas of the city, particularly uptown, that are above sea level by as much as 12 feet. The mississippi river channel over thousands of years built up land around it, some of the highest areas are closest to the river.

Some of the levees are meant to hold back giant spring floods of the river; they are not the problem now.

The lake is not really higher than much of the city -- the lake won't flood new orleans just because of a break in the top of a levee; it's flooding because there are flood waters in St. Bernard parish that are above sea level now. As the flood waters outside the levee system flow back to the sea, the flooding situation should get better.

They will be able to use the river for evacuation and relief efforts. It's just a question of getting ships in there and getting people to the ships. I haven't heard the extent of damage to Gov Nichols, Napolean Ave, and the other wharves.

The one thing they need now is a military force at least as big as was marshalled after Andrew. I hope the convoys are on their way.

[BReb]

With respect, New Orleans is about its people, and its culture. I've been there often and I never thought "boy, it's great to be here between the Ponchartrain and the Mississippi." I thought about the people, the culture and the spirit of the town.

That spirit can and should live on somewhere north of Lake Ponchartrain. Make the northern suburbs of New Orleans the southern suburbs of the new New Orleans, for example. Build it as close as geography and intelligent city planning will permit.

But it's stupid to rebuild the city in one of the worst locations in the continental US for a city.

[Talon402]

I think eventually the city will be rebuilt, obviously. No one in Louisana's government or the people displaced are going to just roll over and say, "Yeah, too much work."

With that said, there obviously needs to be a major reworking of the levee and canal system. Most of those canals and systems have been there for a VERY long time.

Why not re-engineer them similar to what they have in Japan? Giant doors that open and close, huge berms concrete reinforced. I don't know if anyone has seen pictures of those things but they are massive.

People are always going to spring back; especially here in the U.S. I don't see anyone just rolling over, regardless of how bad it gets. There's always the determined who rouse the majority; and thats what I think will happen here.

[inotherwords]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the refineries and the chemical plants are actually IN the city proper.

The port IS, though. That is a huge issue.

[BReb]

"Has Galveston had a direct Cat. 4 or 5 hit since 1900?"

But that's just the thing- this WASN'T a direct hit. If NOLA had gotten the eastern eyewall of Katrina, you MIGHT be able to say "well, that's very unlikely to happen again."

But NOLA got less than 100 mph winds AFAIK. That's very likely to happen again and probably relatively soon.

[swampdude]

Galveston was shored up by a seawall after the 1900 storm. What many people do not realize is that the entire island was raised from it's average of 3 feet elevation. The highest elevation was 8.7 feet. The island is now highest on the Gulf (17 feet) at the seawall and slopes away from the Gulf toward Galveston Bay. http://www.1900storm.com/rebuilding/index.lasso

I agree that it is too early to bury or build N.O., but at the moment I will err on the side of rebuilding until we can step back and take an objective look at the entire situation.

[blueeyes_austin]

For what it's worth, there are a couple of researchers on WWL right now and them seem to think the breech in the 17th Street Canal can be plugged.

[donsutherland1]

Inotherwords,

In 1915, Galveston was hit by a Category 4 hurricane:

[Liberty30]

Don, your post is inspiring, and rebuilding this is the likely long term result of the disaster, but it is not a prudent solution. To rebuild in New Orleans below sea level would be to tempt fate. One of our nation's most critical cities (wait until we start to feel the economic effects), it must be rebuilt in some capacity, but not until lengthy studies as to how to prevent a future "filling of the bowl" as is occuring now. There are a critical differences between New Orleans and every other city susceptible to hurricanes, as in every other situation, rebuilding would be a nobrainer. Due to topography and geography, in this case it is not.

[Stormtrack]

The elevation of Galveston was raised up after the 1900 storm. They jacked up all the remaining houses and put dirt or sand under them. Seems like they raised the city about 10 feet. I'm not sure. Not practical in New orleans to do that.

[BReb]

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the refineries and the chemical plants are actually IN the city proper."

I think the refineries are all along the Mississippi River, on the opposite side of the city from the Ponchatrain- the south side.

Since they are on the Mississippi, one would certainly think the refineries are at sea level and thus less effected by any flooding.

[HurriCat]

Nice speech, but Mother Nature ain't the Nazis. Weather, water and physics aren't aware of things like determination and spirit. I have to side with the many like-minded posts: The city is below sea-level. That's all I need: below sea-level. This is the event that they have long played the odds against. They finally rolled snake-eyes, so let's save all we can and help to redevelop the region ANOTHER way. To simply pump-out and rebuild the way it was is just like resetting the pins in a bowling alley. At some point we have to ask if repeating the same mistake is no longer a tragedy but the result of stubborness and stupidity. Flame me if you feel a need, but you can't match THIS "kung-fu": below sea-level.

[jj_frap]

I am sorry I do not see the comparison. Chamberlin believed peace at all costs I do not. The chinese did not invade New Orleans a bad storm did. I would be there arms in hand if they had fighting for every inch of that great city. I believe we should rebuild the world trade center bigger and geater than before for the same reasons you cite. We are talking about a city that is litterally below sea level and surrounded by water. Again the loss of life while bad could have been much greater magnitude if another storm hits there in future. Also what about terrorism. If the city is below sea level and the wall holding in the water are blown up at several points without warning what would happen then. The enemy is flooding water, it kills no matter how stoic you are. By the way Churchill is one of my heroes I think he would see the common sence in my thoughts.

Churchill's no hero: He destroyed social democracy and secularism in Iran via the British-led coup against Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh, an action whose geopolitical effects on Iran, the Middle East, and the world will continue to be devastating long after I'm dead: And I'm only 22.

We'd be a lot nearer to peace in the Middle East had Iran not been subjected to the one-two punch of Western-backed authoritarianism and the totalitarian Islamist reaction to it.

And all because the selfish Brits wanted to control Iran's oil so that they could exploit the population and get it for themselves for next to nothing.

[stormie_skies]

Nice speech, but Mother Nature ain't the Nazis. Weather, water and physics aren't aware of things like determination and spirit. I have to side with the many like-minded posts: The city is below sea-level. That's all I need: below sea-level. This is the event that they have long played the odds against. They finally rolled snake-eyes, so let's save all we can and help to redevelop the region ANOTHER way. To simply pump-out and rebuild the way it was is just like resetting the pins in a bowling alley. At some point we have to ask if repeating the same mistake is no longer a tragedy but the result of stubborness and stupidity. Flame me if you feel a need, but you can't match THIS "kung-fu": below sea-level.

Couldn't something similar be said about any coastal area?

Or about California, which is so often plagued by earthquakes and wildfires?

Doesn't life in pretty much any place carry its own set of risks???


I love New Orleans - there is no place like it on earth. It breaks my heart to see it in this condition, and to see its people suffering so much. And it would break my heart again to know that it was gone forever.

People will rebuild - because thats what Americans do. And I hope the rest of the country will be there to support them. I know I will be.

Don, thanks for this thread. Its a little sliver of hope and courage in a vast ocean of despair.

[JenBayles]

Obviously some posters have never experienced southern Louisiana in person or understand the culture. Make no mistake: New Orleans WILL rise again - whether you want it to or not. Maybe it won't look the same as it did two days ago, but it'll be back. Nothing can keep these people down when they get their minds set on something.

[repeatoffender]

I live in california and despite what non californian's think.. the state is pretty darn safe. earthquakes hardly do any damage and are very very very infrequent. Building codes prevent large scale devestation like the SF quake back in the day. fires happen all over the world, you can't regionalize fires.

NO is below sea level and soon to be a lake. you cannot justify spending the 500 billion to 1 trillion dollars needed to rebuild that city. you wouldn't just need to rebuild it, you would have to build it such that it never could be destroyed again.

who is going to pay that bill? No city has suffered this kind of devestation before in the US. comparing any california or 911 type situation isn't relevent. the city has expected this to happen for a very long time and it finally has.. i dont really see how we can rebuild it knowing that 100,000 people are traped there and could die.. and it would just happen again?

I don't get it.. ground and culture isn't more important than human lives imho. rebuild the city a bit north where water can run away from it in the case of flooding, not have to be pumped out. its only logical..

[inotherwords]

Because some here don't find it practical to do so, doesn't mean they don't "want it" to be rebuilt. I don't read that into their posts. Some want it but feel it might be futile, and are sad because of that.

Let's not start polarizing ourselves.

I think if we keep the emotions out of it this is a very interesting discussion, both pro and con. I hope we can continue to make our points without flaming each other. I for one am very interested in the debate and respect the points of view on either side. This is not an easy situation and there will have to be huge sacrifices made whichever way the decision eventually goes.