From the Superdome to the Astrodome

[Houstonia]

Folks from Houston, thank you for answering my questions. I also didn't know that Houston was close enough to New Orleans that people could travel back and forth to check on progress once the recovery process begins. I was imagining a couple days of travel involved; shows you just how much I know. Thank you for the responses.

Well.. New Orleans is still 350 miles from Houston - about a 7 hour trip. Not exactly a Sunday drive, but definitely just a half-days drive. We've actually made it from Houston to Dauphin Island in about 6 1/2 hours before.

[inotherwords]

Unsavory?

When they're all homeless, wet, hungry, thirsty, dirty, and exhausted, I cant imagine that they'll ever be more equal than they are now....

No one in that situation is entitled to safety and security any more than another. JMO

Nice thought. Want a puppy to go with it?

Folks, I URGE you to do a bit of research into refugee camps. It is absolutely critical for the authorities running these facilities to deal swiftly with the, yes, UNSAVORY elements of their population. The inmates CANNOT be let to run the asylum.

So now I guess you're going to propose we shoot these people too for what they *might* do in the future, just like you suggested for the people stealing grapes and baby food in the streets?

I'm glad hotheads like you aren't in charge down there.

***

With regard to the Astrodome and Houston, this is a good temporary solution but it's also another very uncomfortable place. At least there they can probably get these people some cots to sleep on and put them on the playing field, as opposed to the SuperDome where the field was open to the elements.

[blueeyes_austin]

Unsavory?

When they're all homeless, wet, hungry, thirsty, dirty, and exhausted, I cant imagine that they'll ever be more equal than they are now....

No one in that situation is entitled to safety and security any more than another. JMO

Nice thought. Want a puppy to go with it?

Folks, I URGE you to do a bit of research into refugee camps. It is absolutely critical for the authorities running these facilities to deal swiftly with the, yes, UNSAVORY elements of their population. The inmates CANNOT be let to run the asylum.

So now I guess you're going to propose we shoot these people too for what they *might* do in the future, just like you suggested for the people stealing grapes and baby food in the streets?

I'm glad hotheads like you aren't in charge down there.

***

With regard to the Astrodome and Houston, this is a good temporary solution but it's also not another very comfortable place. At least there maybe they can get these people some cots to sleep on, though.

No, I am not suggesting that. What I *AM* suggesting is that a misplaced idealism about the virtuousness of the entire refugee population is 1) misplaced and 2) likely to lead to bad outcomes if used as a guiding philosophy.

[inotherwords]

Unsavory?

When they're all homeless, wet, hungry, thirsty, dirty, and exhausted, I cant imagine that they'll ever be more equal than they are now....

No one in that situation is entitled to safety and security any more than another. JMO

Nice thought. Want a puppy to go with it?

Folks, I URGE you to do a bit of research into refugee camps. It is absolutely critical for the authorities running these facilities to deal swiftly with the, yes, UNSAVORY elements of their population. The inmates CANNOT be let to run the asylum.

So now I guess you're going to propose we shoot these people too for what they *might* do in the future, just like you suggested for the people stealing grapes and baby food in the streets?

I'm glad hotheads like you aren't in charge down there.

***

With regard to the Astrodome and Houston, this is a good temporary solution but it's also not another very comfortable place. At least there maybe they can get these people some cots to sleep on, though.

No, I am not suggesting that. What I *AM* suggesting is that a misplaced idealism about the virtuousness of the entire refugee population is 1) misplaced and 2) likely to lead to bad outcomes if used as a guiding philosophy.

How would you know what the "guiding philosophy" is of the troops maintaining the peace in the SuperDome? If you don't know for sure that they're mismanaging these refugees, please spare us your cheap lectures.

[Mello1]

Are they going to weed out the unsavory people before transporting them, and provide shelter for them elsewhere?

I got the impression from the Governor last night, that part of the problem was that quite a few people had in the dome had no concern for others, and that was part of the problem

And how would you suggest doing that? Who will you determine is 'unsavory'?

[Mello1]

How would they do that, make the decision as to who is "unsavory" and who is not?

I would imagine that they have a very good diea of who has been giving them problems. At the very least, they need to get more people into the Astrodome to help keep order.

Define 'problems'. If you were coupped up in a building with no power, no fresh water, no sanitation and humidity at 100%, you may become the problem.

[blueeyes_austin]

I'm not talking about the authorties. Hopefully the feds will have more sense than the NOLA civic government in this respect.

Nope, I'm talking about posters like Mello1 who want to deny the reality of the danger that will arise if a hard hand is not used to control these displaced persons.

We've seen in the last two days how civil society breaks down as lawlesslness increases. There are many who want to excuse some portion of that lawlessness as "understandable" without seeing what it will progress to. For example, wouldn't be a heck of a lot better situation now in NOLA had the authorities secured grocery stores and used them as food depots rather than allow the mob to run riot? Wouldn't the dispersed population waiting for rescue in the city be better off if the authorities had begun systematically gunning down the gangs of looters who were beseiging that hospital?

We are in, or are fast approaching, anarchy in NOLA. The longer we wait to impose order on the situation, the harsher that imposition will have to be.

[GalvestonDuck]

Dang, some of you have no faith in your fellow man, do you?

[MBismyPlayground]

So now, the problem with the people being housed at the SuperDome is being solved. What about the other people??
People from MS who are also homeless?? People who are not in the Superdome. People in the outlying areas of NO.
I still have a few questions to this solution. How long can people actually LIVE in the Astrodome??? I understand this as a temp. solution, but for how long??? How long can people actually continue to sleep sitting up in stadium seats??? Even using the field area as a sleeping area, based on the numbers, how long will this continue to work??
Regardless of whom this might offend, there ARE some unsavory people.
Granted, based on the circumstances, all the people are entitled to the same treatment. But given time, the unsavory elements will begin to show. Then tempers will begin to fly. Not that they haven't already.
When this mass evacuation begins, who is to say that the same thugs who have looted stores, assualted people ect, won't be included??? Of course they will.
I know that it is important to get these people OUT NOW and to a safe area. But there also needs to be a plan for the very near future as well.

[Mello1]

I'm not talking about the authorties. Hopefully the feds will have more sense than the NOLA civic government in this respect.

Nope, I'm talking about posters like Mello1 who want to deny the reality of the danger that will arise if a hard hand is not used to control these displaced persons.

We've seen in the last two days how civil society breaks down as lawlesslness increases. There are many who want to excuse some portion of that lawlessness as "understandable" without seeing what it will progress to. For example, wouldn't be a heck of a lot better situation now in NOLA had the authorities secured grocery stores and used them as food depots rather than allow the mob to run riot? Wouldn't the dispersed population waiting for rescue in the city be better off if the authorities had begun systematically gunning down the gangs of looters who were beseiging that hospital?

We are in, or are fast approaching, anarchy in NOLA. The longer we wait to impose order on the situation, the harsher that imposition will have to be.

Be careful in pointing to specific posters. You can talk about what I said without the need to call me out, but don't worry. I'm up to the task of replying to what you said. I am not in denial about anything and you chose to extrapolate things that I did not say or imply. My problem here is with individuals who want want to over generalize the situation. Angry people due to the condition of their environment are deemed as 'unsavory'. I doubt many Americans have even given thought to prepareness or survival issues and would not have a clue as to how they would react in similiar circumstances. Instead, we have this 'just shoot'um all up' attitude and culture that is persistant and disturbing here. No one is suggesting that you don't deal with criminals, but you cannot treat the general population of people there like criminals and animals because you are fed up with the actions of the few.

[MyrtleBeachGal]

***Water continues to rise on the east bank of Orleans and Jefferson Parish and residents are flocking to the west bank, the one dry spot in the two parishes. Director of emergency services says food and water supplies are out for those evacuees.***

This is from http://www.wwltv.com on the front page. This is why we need to hurry up and bus people to the Astrodome. At least they'll be able to receive aid! It just keeps getting worse

[sunny]

***Water continues to rise on the east bank of Orleans and Jefferson Parish and residents are flocking to the west bank, the one dry spot in the two parishes. Director of emergency services says food and water supplies are out for those evacuees.***

This is from http://www.wwltv.com on the front page. This is why we need to hurry up and bus people to the Astrodome. At least they'll be able to receive aid! It just keeps getting worse

Leaves me with a warm and fuzzy feeling. I live on the Westbank.

[periwrinkle]

No one is suggesting that you don't deal with criminals, but you cannot treat the general population of people there like criminals and animals because you are fed up with the actions of the few

I'm not suggesting we treat the majority of people like criminals or animals. Perhaps instead of the word "unsavory" I should have used the word "criminals" I'm not talking about the people that have just lost their tempers, I'm talking about people with criminal behavior.

To me, it is unrealistic to assume that the 20,000 people or so that are in the dome are all law abiding citizens under NORMAL circumstances. A certain % of the population are unsavory. You need only to look to the police officer that was shot in the head to see that.

Is it so unreasonable to think that some of them sought shelter?

The whole situation is a powder keg. It is my opinion, that those who do not normally abide by the law anyway, will or have found a way to point themselves out all on their own. It is those individuals that need to be removed from the general shelter.

[jasons2k]

11:49 A.M. - (AP) AUSTIN, Texas -- Texas is opening its doors to hurricane refugees from neighboring Louisiana.

Texas Governor Rick Perry says he expects evacuees to start arriving within the next 24 hours at the Houston Astrodome. He says Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco asked him this morning if the Astrodome could house the 23-thousand people currently being sheltered at the Superdome in Louisiana, and he quickly agreed. He says even before the request, Texas officials had been talking about using the Astrodome as a long-term shelter for people already stranded in Texas because of the storm.

Perry says the hurricane survivors are welcome in Texas for "as long as they want to stay." Children who are sheltered at the Astrodome will be able to attend public schools in Houston. Perry says the Astrodome schedule has been cleared through December.

[Nimbus]

Supplies can be trucked in to the astrodome rather than having to be airlifted in so this sounds like a logical move.

Near the Astrodome there is dry land to set up outdoor facilities. Chow, bathroom, and shower lines where people can get clean and receive fresh linen.

For 25,000 people that is no easy task and will require a great deal of discipline from all.

Transporting 25,000 people from a flooded facility is going to be a daunting task.

I am assuming they are unable to lower the water level enough to easily convoy people out of the superdome by bus. Otherwise they would be able to truck generators, pumps and supplies into the superdome and set up a similar camp in New Orleans.

[simplyme]

How do you transport 23,000 people? How many buses? How many trips? How do you do it all in the 2 days they said they had to get everyone out of the Superdome? I mean... if a bus can hold roughly 30 (?) people... thats over 750 bus loads. It's a logistical nightmare. Heck, even loading them onto an aircraft carrier would only hold roughly 5,000 (?)... thats 5 trips for a huge ship!

[Swimdude]

Yay! The Astrodome is still good for something!

[blueeyes_austin]

How do you transport 23,000 people? How many buses? How many trips? How do you do it all in the 2 days they said they had to get everyone out of the Superdome? I mean... if a bus can hold roughly 30 (?) people... thats over 750 bus loads. It's a logistical nightmare. Heck, even loading them onto an aircraft carrier would only hold roughly 5,000 (?)... thats 5 trips for a huge ship!

From WWL:
The Federal Emergency Management Agency will provide 475 buses for the transfer, and the Astrodome's schedule has been cleared through December for housing evacuees, said Kathy Walt, a spokeswoman for Texas Gov. Rick Perry.

[inotherwords]

Yay! The Astrodome is still good for something!

Refugee camps and chili cook-offs. Yee-ha!

Speaking of Yee-ha, do they still have the rodeo there? I moved away in the late 1980s.

Lots of good memories of the Astrodome in its heyday, with the Astros in playoffs and the Oilers vs. Steelers and Earl Campbell/Bum Phillips. Those were the days.