NAGIN DECLARES MARTIAL LAW, ALL CIVIL RIGHTS SUSPENDED

[Windy]

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL083105lawless.1242410b.html

"Disgusted and furious with the lawlessness of looters who have put fear into citizens, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declared Martial Law in the city and directed the city's 1,500 person police force to do "whatever it takes" to regain control of the city.

Nagin said that Martial Law means that officers don't have to worry about civil rights and Miranda rights in stopping the looters."

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

It also means we can have our army there. I hope they fix those looters.

[kajunwetha]

Martial Law was declared on late monday.. But for some reason the are not taking it serious on the ground.. The NOPD is still being the NOPD and the military said today that they only provide support for the police. Until the military is asked to take total control... That hasnt happened yet and it horribly needed.. People will die because rescue efforts are being put on hold because some people think they need plasma TV's and Basketball goals to survive.

[ericinmia]

To clear things up

THIS IS NOT REAL MARTIAL LAW

This makes me sooo angry. These officials have PROVEN that they can not handle this situation. The govenor needs to ask president bush to declare martial law. Congress is the only TRUE body that can implement it. The president has the power as the commander in chief so he does also to a degree (loophole).

REAL martial law hands over the area to the military, and the local govt. is NO LONGER in control. The military in essence can do anything! with no restrictions.

Mayor Nagin's idea of his supposed martial law is actually only removing a few rights... right to buy arms, right to buy alcohol, innocent until proven guilty, etc.

There is a HUGE difference between the two, Mayor Nagin's is NO WHERE near real martial law.

WE NEED REAL MARTIAL LAW... ONLY THE ARMY/MILITARY can properly take care of this situation. They have the emergency mgmt skills, equipment, authority, personel, etc. They could accomplish more in one day than all that has occured in the past couple.

Sorry for the rant but this is just sooo unnerving.
-Eric

[wxcrazytwo]

To clear things up

THIS IS NOT REAL MARTIAL LAW

This makes me sooo angry. These officials have PROVEN that they can not handle this situation. The govenor needs to ask president bush to declare martial law. Congress is the only TRUE body that can implement it. The president has the power as the commander in chief so he does also to a degree (loophole).

REAL martial law hands over the area to the military, and the local govt. is NO LONGER in control. The military in essence can do anything! with no restrictions.

Mayor Nagin's idea of his supposed martial law is actually only removing a few rights... right to buy arms, right to buy alcohol, innocent until proven guilty, etc.

There is a HUGE difference between the two, Mayor Nagin's is NO WHERE near real martial law.

WE NEED REAL MARTIAL LAW... ONLY THE ARMY/MILITARY can properly take care of this situation. They have the emergency mgmt skills, equipment, authority, personel, etc. They could accomplish more in one day than all that has occured in the past couple.

Sorry for the rant but this is just sooo unnerving.
-Eric

wrong, states are allowed to run their own business per the Constitution.

[krysof]

Real Martial Law needs to be declared, I mean no mercy to the looters, shooting on the spot to teach them a lesson and all the looters out there because I can't believe that the most powerful country in the world can handle this situation. This is absolutely
Ridiculous

[ericinmia]

wrong, states are allowed to run their own business per the Constitution.

This is the exact reason that via states rights, the govenor has to request for the martial law from the federal govt. This thing that Mayor Nagin did was simply a trick/smokescreen...

Actually there are liberties that are federaly protected, and last i checked the military and army were FEDERAL... thus why they are using the incapable national guard at the momment.

Not to undermine the national guard, but if i had my choice i would rather have the true active duty full service divisions working for me.
-Eric

P.S. Before you contradict you may want to read up on what happens in a Martial Law scenario. Mayor Nagin would no longer have control... so i don't know where your going with your comments...

[themusk]

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL083105lawless.1242410b.html

"Disgusted and furious with the lawlessness of looters who have put fear into citizens, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declared Martial Law in the city and directed the city's 1,500 person police force to do "whatever it takes" to regain control of the city.

Nagin said that Martial Law means that officers don't have to worry about civil rights and Miranda rights in stopping the looters."

Actually your title is misleading. There is no constitutional way to suspend all civil rights, nor would that be desirable. You wouldn't want the authorities, for example, arresting persons on the basis of ancestry, religion, or political party affiliation, trying the arrestees en-masse before a kangaroo court, and sentencing them to death. Even the Supreme Court has ruled that the prisoners at Guantanamo have some due process rights.

What martial law in America does is suspend a few civil rights temporarily for the purposes of maintaining order in a crisis. For example, authorities can suspend freedom of assembly, thus allowing authorities to, say, ban three or more persons from gathering on the streets in shopping districts, and to arrest those who do. Also the usual laws regarding taking someone into custody are loosened -- authorities can arrest someone, not because of evidence of a crime, but merely because their presence or their otherwise-legal activity may contribute to the disorder.

[ericinmia]

Martial law
Martial law is the system of rules that takes effect (usually after a formal declaration) when a military authority takes control of the normal administration of justice (and usually of the whole state).
Martial law is instituted most often when it becomes necessary to favour the activity of military authorities and organizations, usually for urgent unforeseen needs, and when the normal institutions of justice either cannot function or could be deemed too slow or too weak for the new situation, i.e., due to war or civil disorder, in occupied territory, or after a coup d'état. The need to preserve the public order during an emergency is the essential goal of martial law. However, declaration of martial law is also sometimes used by dictatorships, especially military dictatorships, to enforce their rule.

Usually martial law reduces some of the personal rights ordinarily granted to the citizen, limits the length of the trial processes, and prescribes more severe penalties than ordinary law. In many countries martial law prescribes the death penalty for certain crimes, even if ordinary law doesn't contain that crime or punishment in its system.

In many countries martial law imposes particular rules, one of which is curfew. Often, under this system, the administration of justice is left to military tribunals, called courts-martial. The suspension of the writ of habeas corpus is likely to occur.


The United States
In United States law, martial law is limited by several court decisions handed down during the American Civil War and World War II. In Ex Parte Milligan 71 US 2 1866, the Supreme Court of the United States held that martial law could not be instituted within the United States when its civilian courts are in operation.

True martial law in essence gives the land that is under the jursidiction to the military. They do as they see fit. There are NO RESTRICTIONS on what they can and can't do.

The last time it was implemted state wide was in 1933, but i know in Hurricane Andrew we had 10-20k active duty army in Dade County. We had Humvees patrolling the streets with 50 cal machine guns, tanks, men with m16's at every corner... Blackhawks and such flying constantly overhead.

Did we have violence or riots... NO... Especially not after that help arrived, which arrived post haste... since we didn't mess around.

THEY ARE IN OVER THEIR HEAD, THIS IS GOING TO GET REALLY UGLY....

[Coredesat]

Could a moderator move this thread to the hurricane aftermath forum?

[Aslkahuna]

Only the President can order regular troops into a City. Furthermore it can only be done at the request of the state Governors.

Steve

[soonertwister]

Joint Task Force Katrina is starting to make it's presence felt in NOLA. President Bush has allowed Mayor Nagin to assign his police force to restoring public order.

I agree with that. If the pros show up on the scene and start shooting people left and right, it paints our whole country in a bad light. Let NOLA authorities handle the restoration of order.

If they aren't up to the job, we will have the boots on the ground to assume the task.

[CentralFlGal]

I'm confused.

As we are the United States (a name which denotes a union of sovereign entities), why wouldn't a governor possess the right to declare martial law in his territory?

This would be like the EU telling Poland it can't handle serious matters within its own borders without first asking permission.

I realize that fed resources (i.e. the military) may be a factor in the equation; however, tax dollars from each governor's state go to support and maintain these troops.

[MBismyPlayground]

I'm confused.

As we are the United States (a name which denotes a union of sovereign entities), why wouldn't a governor possess the right to declare martial law in his territory?

This would be like the EU telling Poland it can't handle serious matters within its own borders without first asking permission.

I realize that fed resources (i.e. the military) may be a factor in the equation; however, tax dollars from each governor's state go to support and maintain these troops.

The govenor does have the right to declare "martial Law" after the govenor requests this from the president. On the other hand, the mayor cannot claim, ask for or anything else to do with martial law.
Just like with the national guard, whom the states "TAX DOLLARS" support. Each state has their own soldiers (nat Guard)from their own state. Even though they are part of the military, when deployed to handle state issues, their "boss" would be the govenor,as well as their chain of command. They are only there, at this point to augument the local police force. Once the govenor requests from the president, an act of martial law, then everything is turned over into the hands of the ACTIVE DUTY military.
Then, instead of city, county or state laws, you are dealiing with FEDERAL laws. And EVERYTHING will be done as the military does it. For instance, Hurricane Andrew. The ACTIVE military, upon orders from the President of the US, deployed to south FL. Began setting up tent cities, food lines, and organizing things ala military style. They began patroling the streets and enforcing curfews, with the threat if these "LAWS" are violated, these violators are breaking FEDERAL laws and can and will be prosecuted. These foot patrols would not be placed sparodically around but usually every few 100 feet or so, to guard roads, neighborhoods and the security of the area, plus there would be troops who actually would patrol the perimeter of the areas asigned to them.
As of right now, the powers that be feel as if the NO police department, along with the augumentation of the National Guard, can handle the situation and the need for Active Duty Soldiers and a call for Martial Law is not neccessary. That this would be a last resort. Therefore the safety of New Orleans is still in the hands of the NO Police Department with the help of the National Guard. As far as safety goes, tell this to the soldier who got shot last night at the Superdome. Or the people who have been raped there. Or the people smoking crack and doing drugs. The same things that will be transfered to Houston. What an awful thought........

[ericinmia]

Great,

Now they have stopped evacuating the superdome becuase the Natl Guard said their helicopters were getting fired upon.

FIRE BACK????
This is rediculous.
-Eric

[Stratusxpeye]

This is insane. All hell is loose in NOLA. How miuch worse can this get? and I have a bad feeling about the astrodome move same as I had about the superdome.

[sunny]

From what we understand, the Marines are supposed to be moving in I THINK today. I'll tell you, I do not feel safe going to get my clothes. I just cannot believe this is happening.

[Miss Mary]

From what we understand, the Marines are supposed to be moving in I THINK today. I'll tell you, I do not feel safe going to get my clothes. I just cannot believe this is happening.

None of us can believe it Cindy. I wouldn't feel safe going back in for chothing or items left behind.

I wish they had moved in days ago.



mary

[drudd1]

Here is an interesting link on Martial Law:

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html

[Robert]

From what we understand, the Marines are supposed to be moving in I THINK today. I'll tell you, I do not feel safe going to get my clothes. I just cannot believe this is happening.

I heard this morning on local news that 70 troops from New River Air Station (North Carolina) are headed to "the Gulf Coast." I don't know how they are coming, or where they are going, but good to see some at least on their way to that area.

Personally I would like to see a lot more go (not because I mind the military around here, just think they could do a lot of good down on the coast). I live very close to Cherry Point and Camp LeJeune, and quite often see buses of troops headed to the port, or long convoys of Humvees and large trucks (I don't know the names of them, but looks like they could drive through almost anything). I say send them into at least NO, well armed, and put one on every corner, or sweep the city (24 hour curfew, if you are out of your house, you will be removed from the city).

I can understand people's hesitation to leave (we heard what happened in the one dome, and now they are being sent to another?), but until you get control of the city, it will continue. And it may sound harsh, but I say after one week, the military pull out. There is a mandatory evacuation order, which means that every should leave or fend for themselves. Once rescue of those who want to be rescued is done, if there are still people who insist on staying (once informed that disease will be rampent, there will be no law enforcement, no fire or EMS services, no food or water delivered, and that they will probably die) they should be allowed to stay, but military should pull back to just protect (with force) police stations, hospitals, and buildings that have not been destroyed or looted.

Robert