Rebuilding question... need some help

[TSmith274]

I lost my camp in Buras, La from hurricane Katrina. I'm ready to rebuild and I've decided to go with conventional construction on a pier foundation. I'd like to go as hurricane proof as possible. I've heard of all kinds of new construction, from metal buildings to foam-core exterior walls, etc... I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with hurricane resistant construction like this, or if anyone can recommend a builder or manufacturer that may handle something like that. Any advice or opinions will really help. Even Google wasn't much help. Seems that many of these builders havent broken into the Gulf Coast market just yet. I'm sure many of yall on the Gulf Coast are going through the same process. Thanks in advance.

[vbhoutex]

When Ivan was coming into Pensacola my mother was staying with friends in Niceville, who own a "hurricane proof" house. Apparently it is steel framed and the windows, etc. are hurricane rated or something like that. I really don't know much past that. I will ask her if she can get any info on it.

Of course you could build a $400,000.00 dome home like the one on P'cola Beach.

[TSmith274]

Thanks, I'd apprieciate it.

[Dionne]

First you need to determine your BFE (basic flood elevation). From there on it's only a question of money. Your description of "as hurricane proof as possible" suggests steel and concrete. Depending on your soil.....you may require a spread footer to support your vertical support members. Connectivity is your primary concern......your building for lift not load.

The only structures that can withstand storm surges similar to Katrina are commercial in design. And as you well know....not all of them survived the test.

The possibility exists that you could end up spending upwards of $300 per sq/ft and still lose the building in another monster storm.

If your pockets are that deep.....I suggest you get a set of engineered plans.

[Ixolib]

Given your location (Buras) and the use of the property (camp), have you considered going with the "Bic Lighter" concept?

In other words, instead of building to the extreme with all kinds of precautions, etc, it may be just a wise to go the "disposable" route where you can rebuild several times for what it would cost to have one structurally engineered dwelling that may or may not withstand a major storm.

If it were me, I'd build the frame out of steel (with much attention on the footings) and orient it in a manner where the walls could easily blow out, leaving the frame and roof members intact for future (and speedy) rebuilding...

I'd also furnish it with lesser-priced appliances and furniture, and I'd put the central A/C on a steel pad welded to the upper story as high as possible.

[Recurve]

Biloxi has a good point.
Engineered houses in the keys have concrete block walls and lots of hurricane straps on the roof if it's frame, or poured concrete roofs.
Engineering to high wind loads is possible. Battering waves is of course a separate issue -- you need to be completely above the waves, which might mean a house with the first floor three stories up.
People are buying manufactured homes in the Keys that are rated at 155 mph, and placing them on concrete piers.
All homes here require not just architect plans but plans sealed by an engineer.
Door and windows can be purchased that meet Dade County code ( 150 mph wind load).
One thing I'm starting to see a lot of is doors that have barrel bolts at the top and bottom on the side opposite from the hinges.
An old trick in the Keys was to mount exterior doors "backward" so they swing out -- less likely to be blown open.

Good luck, I hope you can get your camp back into shape.

[Audrey2Katrina]

Some pretty sound advice up there. I'd go with Ixolib's idea and opt for something that is essentially sturdy, but with largely "disposable" extras.

A2K

[TSmith274]

Thanks... I'm going up 12 feet or so. I'm going to a meeting on the 4th about this. I'll relay what i learn.

[Frank P]

Here is my rough plan for rebuilding on the beach in Biloxi, the key structural highlights.... hope to start in July...

34'x68' ft house, living area 34'x50', 10'x34' front covered porch

20' 12"x12" treated piers (.8 cca) 10 feet in ground, concreted, and 10 feet above ground, area will be concreted with extra footing with rebar on the perimeter of all piers, will be a parking area under house and work shop... this will put my living floor 27 feet above sea level... two feet above Katrina

front and rear porch will be tied in with 4 each 6x6 steel box posts embedded in concrete footing bolted to the porches and the roof plates of the porches

all 2x6 construction with 5x8 in plywood wrap on all exterior walls and roof decking (glued and nailed), concrete Hardy board exterior siding finish, plethora of hurricane straps to be used as per the newly adopted International Building code

all hip roof, 6x12 pitch (best for wind resistance is between 4x12 and 6x12 pitch), all metal 26 gauge

9 foot ceilings,

sprayed on foam for flooring and exterior walls, which will increase wall stability a little

should be good enough for a Cat 4 or weak Cat 5 wind wise...

[TSmith274]

Wow Frank you nearly quoted what a builder suggested to me last night. This guy tells me that in lower Plaquemines parish, you have to drive pilings 30 feet until you hit solid sand. Said that each strike of the piling drives it about 1 foot... very soft ground... hence the plans with rebar and a slab. One question... I have an inside source for 10x10 20' pilings. Is this too narrow? I notice you're going with 12". This place will be 82'x34', one story up 12 feet. But even up 12', another Katrina would put 8 feet of water in the place. Any thoughts?

[Frank P]

Wow Frank you nearly quoted what a builder suggested to me last night. This guy tells me that in lower Plaquemines parish, you have to drive pilings 30 feet until you hit solid sand. Said that each strike of the piling drives it about 1 foot... very soft ground... hence the plans with rebar and a slab. One question... I have an inside source for 10x10 20' pilings. Is this too narrow? I notice you're going with 12". This place will be 82'x34', one story up 12 feet. But even up 12', another Katrina would put 8 feet of water in the place. Any thoughts?

Gee TS you're pretty low huh...

My soil is pretty solid being 17.5 feet above sea level so we are just boring holes 11.5 feet in the ground, putting 1.5 feet of pea gravel at the bottom, then inserting the 20' 12x12s and filling hole with concrete... pea gravel helps drain the hole... also make sure your timber is treated with CCA to at least 0.6 or 0.8 # per cubic foot, or even better, rated for marine use...

I'm using 12x12's primarly because I am on the beach and I could get some significant wave action from the GOM.... I have some friends across the bay, who don't have quite the wave action, that are going with the 20 foot 10x10s.... which you can get for about 225 bucks... 12x12 costs 333 bucks... but for the 2000 dollar savings I'll have a little more piece of mind with the full cut 12x12s.... if I was only subject to flooding, with no discernable wave action then 10x10s should be more than enough.... this is based on what some of the builders I have been talking to have recommended to me...

best of luck... I'll be placing my order next week for the 12s, it takes about six weeks to get them cut and treated...

[Dionne]

Here is my rough plan for rebuilding on the beach in Biloxi, the key structural highlights.... hope to start in July...

34'x68' ft house, living area 34'x50', 10'x34' front covered porch

20' 12"x12" treated piers (.8 cca) 10 feet in ground, concreted, and 10 feet above ground, area will be concreted with extra footing with rebar on the perimeter of all piers, will be a parking area under house and work shop... this will put my living floor 27 feet above sea level... two feet above Katrina

front and rear porch will be tied in with 4 each 6x6 steel box posts embedded in concrete footing bolted to the porches and the roof plates of the porches

all 2x6 construction with 5x8 in plywood wrap on all exterior walls and roof decking (glued and nailed), concrete Hardy board exterior siding finish, plethora of hurricane straps to be used as per the newly adopted International Building code

all hip roof, 6x12 pitch (best for wind resistance is between 4x12 and 6x12 pitch), all metal 26 gauge

9 foot ceilings,

sprayed on foam for flooring and exterior walls, which will increase wall stability a little

should be good enough for a Cat 4 or weak Cat 5 wind wise...

I see one deficiency.....the connectivity from your piers should extend to the top of your 9' walls. If you chop your piers off at your floor level your going to lose some strength. Your pier to floor joist fastening will become your weakest point.

[Frank P]

Here is my rough plan for rebuilding on the beach in Biloxi, the key structural highlights.... hope to start in July...

34'x68' ft house, living area 34'x50', 10'x34' front covered porch

20' 12"x12" treated piers (.8 cca) 10 feet in ground, concreted, and 10 feet above ground, area will be concreted with extra footing with rebar on the perimeter of all piers, will be a parking area under house and work shop... this will put my living floor 27 feet above sea level... two feet above Katrina

front and rear porch will be tied in with 4 each 6x6 steel box posts embedded in concrete footing bolted to the porches and the roof plates of the porches

all 2x6 construction with 5x8 in plywood wrap on all exterior walls and roof decking (glued and nailed), concrete Hardy board exterior siding finish, plethora of hurricane straps to be used as per the newly adopted International Building code

all hip roof, 6x12 pitch (best for wind resistance is between 4x12 and 6x12 pitch), all metal 26 gauge

9 foot ceilings,

sprayed on foam for flooring and exterior walls, which will increase wall stability a little

should be good enough for a Cat 4 or weak Cat 5 wind wise...

I see one deficiency.....the connectivity from your piers should extend to the top of your 9' walls. If you chop your piers off at your floor level your going to lose some strength. Your pier to floor joist fastening will become your weakest point.

I've looked at that somewhat... I'd need 30 foot 12x12's which I probably can't get... or could afford... the 28 20 ft 12x12 will cost $10,000 alone

I will bolt all the floor joyces to the piers per the FEMA codes, and the rest of the constuction will meet the new international codes... I'll have 5/8 inch plywood running horizontal from the bottom of the floor joyces to the top plate of the 9 foot ceilings.... I'm also using 2x6 construction..and all the hurricane straps I can put... I will also use a 5/8 in stainless steel cable that will tie in the leading edge of the both the front and rear porch from the top plate of the 9 foot ceiling and embedded in the concrete footing of the 4 12x12s that will be used for each porch, so this will help tied in the porch overhang against the wind... one of my concerns... none of this will help if water gets this high..

[Dionne]

I can certainly understand the poles cost and availability problem.

Your glue/nail application will do wonders. The glue alone increases shear by 30%. Make sure you use ALL the correct nails/screws/clips/straps/joist hangers. Nailing patterns are very important.

During the winter of 1983, myself and a client, built a home in the Pearl river flood basin. It is very similar to your plans.....only difference was poles went all the way to the roof line. Understand that the client had plenty of money, resources and time.

The home was/is 2750 feet sq/ft that began at 12' above BFE. The ground floor concrete pad is a three bay drive through garage. Beautiful home right on the banks of the Pearl about 40 miles south of Jackson.

The home has stood through two floods (no damage), a near miss (100 meters) by an F3 tornado (window, shingle damage and one porch roof blew off), and a very nasty divorce.

I'm not sure if that same home on the coast would endure a CAT 3 or 4? I suspect that the shear would all transfer to the base of the poles at the concrete line.

There ya go.....something more to be concerned about.......

If your would like we can continue this dialogue at;

rdionne@bellsouth.net

Take care.....Ron