Hurricane Wilma - Cat. 5

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cmdebbie
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#4161 Postby cmdebbie » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:02 am

105 mph gust is much different than 105 mph sustained. 85 seems like a good estimate though.


ok, ok.....so I made a mistake, I think I am allowed one every now and then. j/k Anyways, I looked it up....we had sustained at 90 mph and gusts between 100 -105. However, I was here, and I can tell you that those "gusts" were coming pretty much continuously, with only seconds in between. The official word for that might be "gusts", but there were 12 people in my house that night and we all agreed that they were pretty much sustained; however, we are not the professionals. Just those who lived through it in the NNE Quad.

By the way, there were several roofs destroyed from winds in this area, not trees. Downtown, there were even a couple of homes (small ones) that were destroyed.
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#4162 Postby Stratosphere747 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:02 am

Thermos that was from the 11pm discussion...

Now we even have conformation from recon that in fact it has lost some strength.
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#4163 Postby jkt21787 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:03 am

THead wrote:
thermos wrote:
boca_chris wrote:well even if pressures are rising some the convection is expanding and I would think that soon after we would see the pressures start to drop again.


No remember that's not the convection expanding and intensifying its the sunset :wink: Even NHC reported that the cloud tops were cooling in the last discussion.

SATELLITE IMAGERY SHOWS SOME COOLING OF THE CLOUD TOPS IN BOTH THE INNER AND OUTER EYEWALLS...ALTHOUGH THERE HAS NOT YET BEEN ENOUGH INCREASE IN ORGANIZATION TO JUSTIFY INCREASING THE WINDS.

So the NHC said there was an increase in organization like we were saying and not how jkt and others were saying it was a "sunset" just making it look that way on the satellite.


That was 7 hours ago when the sun was setting. That effect is now over......however the moon has risen since then....... :roll:

Thank you. What an unbelieveable attack on me personally. And I am the one who is right!! Makes him look like a fool, especially for having completely ignored my posts explaining the occurrence.
Last edited by jkt21787 on Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#4164 Postby tronbunny » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:03 am

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't cloud tops cooling means higher clouds, and greater convection?
Greater convection would equal better organization, I would think.
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#4165 Postby THead » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:04 am

Was outside a few minutes ago for a walk, and man is it damp out. The air is just heavy, humid, disgusting. The moon is hanging in a cloudless sky and still theres a huge "aura" around it. Just an obs....oh yeah, and barely a breath of wind. Now I need a shower.
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#4166 Postby markymark8 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:06 am

Recon just confirmed Wilma is drifting Northeast!!! Wonder if this will change the forecast track now.
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#4167 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:06 am

tronbunny wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't cloud tops cooling means higher clouds, and greater convection?
Greater convection would equal better organization, I would think.



Me to...Also the temperature difference is now 6 degrees. So that normally means we got a healthy storm. The inner eye is the problem its not fading. In so its sucking the strength or any chance for it to strengthing. When thats gone then expect strengthing...
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#4168 Postby thermos » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:06 am

Cooling cloud tops means strengthening just like the NHC said and not like these others are saying.
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#4169 Postby TreasureIslandFLGal » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:07 am

yeah, a shower is a good idea... got to get away from this screen for a while anyway!

good night evryone... unitl tomorrow, when the real action and wobble-watching will begin! :P
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#4170 Postby WxGuy1 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:07 am

thermos wrote:
boca_chris wrote:well even if pressures are rising some the convection is expanding and I would think that soon after we would see the pressures start to drop again.


No remember that's not the convection expanding and intensifying its the sunset :wink: Even NHC reported that the cloud tops were cooling in the last discussion.


He isn't looking at Shortwave IR. I know you're being sarcastic (I think), but the tops will appear to cool if you're looking at shortwave IR at sunset, courtesy of the ceasation of incoming radiation from the sun. If you don't believe me, look at a national view of shortwave IR near sunset (or sunrise).

So far, Wilma is behaving pretty close as I had expected. I thought she may be able to shave off a mb or two in past few hours, but instead she's risen 3mb and, according to max FL winds on recon, is really a Cat 1. Just as a word of caution, you'll drive yourself crazy if you read into every new satellite image! Just as you shouldn't really put too much faith into any individual numerical model run, you shouldn't really look at very short-term trends and try to guess on that. I will guarantee that Wilma will wobble northward... and southward. I will guarantee that there will be bursts of convection. Such things really shouldn't surprise anyone. However, it takes a lot more to bring a storm to a strong hurricane than some blobs of red on an IR image.

By the way, good sat images at http://www.cira.colostate.edu/RAMM/Rmsd ... PICAL.html and http://www.cira.colostate.edu/RAMM/Rmsdsol/RSOMAIN.HTML . Since the GOES 12 is in Rapid Scan Mode, new images are sent considerably more frequently than usual. The NHC site only updates sat images every 30 minutes -- the link above has 5-10 minute updates. (I guess it isn't now, but GOES 12 is supposed to be in eclipse right now, so we should see rapid update resume in the morning).
Last edited by WxGuy1 on Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#4171 Postby thermos » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:08 am

There are also other mets sayiong it will most definitely regain Cat 3 strength. And it is organizing now clearly -- even the NHC said it was in their last discussion.

The 85GGhz scan shows the very startling looking and nearly complete outer ring of strong convection; this image taken
about 6 hours ago. A later HI-RES image - with the sun beginning to set, shows a much better depiction of both the outer ring
and the remnant inner core circulation. There is no doubt that the outer ring was the prime reason Wilma maintained hurricane
intensity while the core was over land. And there is little doubt, either the inner eyewall will re-establish itself as the primary
eyewall, or, the outer wall will quickly shrink down to 30NM and become the primary wall within the next 6 hrs. Based on
how well Wilma has maintained it's core -- and the fact the storm will be passing across the Loop current later tonight and
Sunday, Wilma almost certainly will re-intensify to a solid CAT 3, Major hurricane on Sunday.


http://www.wunderground.com/blog/SteveGregory/show.html
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#4172 Postby TampaFl » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:09 am

000
WTNT34 KNHC 230559
TCPAT4
BULLETIN
HURRICANE WILMA INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY NUMBER 31A
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
1 AM CDT SUN OCT 23 2005

...WILMA DRIFTING NORTHEASTWARD OFF THE NORTHEAST COAST OF
YUCATAN...HAS NOT STRENGTHENED YET...

A HURRICANE WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR ALL OF THE FLORIDA KEYS...
INCLUDING THE DRY TORTUGAS AND FLORIDA BAY. A HURRICANE WARNING IS
ALSO IN EFFECT ALONG THE FLORIDA WEST COAST FROM LONGBOAT KEY
SOUTHWARD...AND ALONG THE FLORIDA EAST COAST FROM JUPITER INLET
SOUTHWARD...INCLUDING LAKE OKEECHOBEE.

A HURRICANE WATCH IS IN EFFECT ALONG THE FLORIDA EAST COAST
NORTH OF JUPITER INLET TO TITUSVILLE. HURRICANE WARNINGS WILL
LIKELY BE REQUIRED FOR THIS AREA SUNDAY MORNING.

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING IS IN EFFECT ALONG THE FLORIDA WEST COAST
NORTH OF LONGBOAT KEY TO STEINHATCHEE RIVER.

A TROPICAL STORM WATCH IS IN EFFECT ALONG THE EAST COAST OF
FLORIDA FROM NORTH OF TITUSVILLE NORTHWARD TO FERNANDINA BEACH.

AT 1 AM CDT...0600Z...THE GOVERNMENT OF MEXICO HAS DISCONTINUED THE
HURRICANE WARNING SOUTH OF PUNTA GRUESA...AND DISCONTINUED THE
TROPICAL STORM WARNING AND HURRICANE WATCH WEST OF SAN FELIPE. A
HURRICANE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM SAN FELIPE TO PUNTA GRUESA
ON THE YUCATAN PENINSULA...INCLUDING COZUMEL AND THE NEARBY
ISLANDS.

A HURRICANE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FOR THE CUBAN PROVINCES OF
CIUDAD DE LA HABANA...LA HABANA...AND PINAR DEL RIO. A TROPICAL
STORM WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR THE ISLE OF YOUTH. A HURRICANE
WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FOR THE PROVINCE OF MATANZAS.

A HURRICANE WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FOR THE NORTHWESTERN BAHAMAS...
INCLUDING THE ABACOS...ANDROS ISLAND...BERRY ISLANDS...
BIMINI...ELEUTHERA...GRAND BAHAMA ISLAND...AND NEW PROVIDENCE.

FOR STORM INFORMATION SPECIFIC TO YOUR AREA...INCLUDING POSSIBLE
INLAND WATCHES AND WARNINGS...PLEASE MONITOR PRODUCTS ISSUED
BY YOUR LOCAL WEATHER OFFICE.

AT 1 AM CDT...0600Z...THE CENTER OF HURRICANE WILMA WAS LOCATED
NEAR LATITUDE 21.8 NORTH...LONGITUDE 86.8 WEST OR ABOUT 55
MILES... 85 KM NORTH OF CANCUN MEXICO. THIS IS ALSO ABOUT 370
MILES... 600 KM...WEST-SOUTHWEST OF KEY WEST FLORIDA.

WILMA IS DRIFTING NORTHEASTWARD AND AN INCREASE IN FORWARD SPEED IS
EXPECTED LATER TODAY.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 100 MPH...160 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. WILMA IS A CATEGORY TWO HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON
SCALE. SOME STRENGTHENING IS POSSIBLE TODAY.

HURRICANE FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 70 MILES...110 KM...
FROM THE CENTER...AND TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP
TO 200 MILES...325 KM.

AN AIR FORCE HURRICANE HUNTER AIRCRAFT REPORTED A MINIMUM CENTRAL
PRESSURE OF 962 MB...28.41 INCHES.

STORM SURGE FLOODING OF 8 TO 13 FT ABOVE NORMAL TIDE LEVELS IS
POSSIBLE ALONG THE SOUTHWEST FLORIDA COAST AND NEAR AND TO THE
SOUTH OF WHERE THE CENTER OF WILMA MAKES LANDFALL. STORM SURGE
FLOODING OF 5 TO 8 FT ABOVE NORMAL IS POSSIBLE IN THE FLORIDA KEYS
AND FLORIDA BAY...AS WELL AS IN LAKE OKEECHOBEE. STORM SURGE
FLOODING ALONG THE YUCATAN PENINSULA AND THE NEARBY ISLANDS SHOULD
SUBSIDE AS WILMA MOVES AWAY.

WILMA IS EXPECTED TO PRODUCE ADDITIONAL RAINFALL ACCUMULATIONS OF 10
TO 15 INCHES THROUGH SUNDAY ACROSS PORTIONS OF WESTERN CUBA AND THE
YUCATAN PENINSULA... WITH ISOLATED MAXIMUM STORM TOTAL AMOUNTS
APPROACHING 50 INCHES. RAINFALL ACROSS SOUTHERN FLORIDA INCLUDING
THE KEYS THROUGH TUESDAY IS EXPECTED TO BE 4 TO 8 INCHES... WITH
ISOLATED MAXIMUM AMOUNTS OF 12 INCHES POSSIBLE.

LARGE SWELLS GENERATED BY WILMA WILL CONTINUE TO PROPAGATE INTO THE
EASTERN GULF OF MEXICO. THESE SWELLS COULD AFFECT PORTIONS OF THE
NORTHERN GULF COAST TONIGHT AND SUNDAY.

ISOLATED TORNADOES ARE POSSIBLE OVER THE FLORIDA PENINSULA AND THE
FLORIDA KEYS DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS.

REPEATING THE 1 AM CDT POSITION...21.8 N... 86.8 W. MOVEMENT...
DRIFTING NORTHEASTWARD. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...100 MPH.
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE... 962 MB.

THE NEXT ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER AT
4 AM CDT.

FORECASTER PASCH

$$
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#4173 Postby jkt21787 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:09 am

thermos wrote:Cooling cloud tops means strengthening just like the NHC said and not like these others are saying.

Hello? How thick is your head? Do you just ignore every post but your own? Do I need to explain for the thousandth time about this? Jeez...

People like you are why I am mere seconds away from leaving this board permanently.
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#4174 Postby thermos » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:10 am

NHC confirmed it was organizing in their last discussion:

SATELLITE IMAGERY SHOWS SOME COOLING OF THE CLOUD TOPS IN BOTH THE INNER AND OUTER EYEWALLS...ALTHOUGH THERE HAS NOT YET BEEN ENOUGH INCREASE IN ORGANIZATION TO JUSTIFY INCREASING THE WINDS.


If you want to argue with the NHC fine. I'm just going with what they are saying.
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#4175 Postby jkt21787 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:10 am

WxGuy1 wrote:
thermos wrote:
boca_chris wrote:well even if pressures are rising some the convection is expanding and I would think that soon after we would see the pressures start to drop again.


No remember that's not the convection expanding and intensifying its the sunset :wink: Even NHC reported that the cloud tops were cooling in the last discussion.


He isn't looking at Shortwave IR. I know you're being sarcastic (I think), but the tops will appear to cool if you're looking at shortwave IR at sunset, courtesy of the ceasation of incoming radiation from the sun. If you don't believe me, look at a national view of shortwave IR near sunset (or sunrise).

So far, Wilma is behaving pretty close as I had expected. I thought she may be able to shave off a mb or two in past few hours, but instead she's risen 3mb and, according to max FL winds on recon, is really a Cat 1. Just as a word of caution, you'll drive yourself crazy if you read into every new satellite image! Just as you shouldn't really put too much faith into any individual numerical model run, you shouldn't really look at very short-term trends and try to guess on that. I will guarantee that Wilma will wobble northward... and southward. I will guarantee that there will be bursts of convection. Such things really shouldn't surprise anyone. However, it takes a lot more to bring a storm to a strong hurricane than some blobs of red on an IR image.

By the way, good sat images at http://www.cira.colostate.edu/RAMM/Rmsd ... PICAL.html . Since the GOES 12 is in Rapid Scan Mode, new images are sent considerably more frequently than usual. The NHC site only updates sat images every 30 minutes -- the link above has 5-10 minute updates.

THANK YOU!! THERMOS PLEAS READ THIS FIRST PARAGRAPH!
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#4176 Postby thermos » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:11 am

jkt21787 wrote:
thermos wrote:Cooling cloud tops means strengthening just like the NHC said and not like these others are saying.

Hello? How thick is your head? Do you just ignore every post but your own? Do I need to explain for the thousandth time about this? Jeez...

People like you are why I am mere seconds away from leaving this board permanently.


I read your posts. Very interesting. :roll:
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#4177 Postby jkt21787 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:11 am

thermos wrote:NHC confirmed it was organizing in their last discussion:

SATELLITE IMAGERY SHOWS SOME COOLING OF THE CLOUD TOPS IN BOTH THE INNER AND OUTER EYEWALLS...ALTHOUGH THERE HAS NOT YET BEEN ENOUGH INCREASE IN ORGANIZATION TO JUSTIFY INCREASING THE WINDS.


If you want to argue with the NHC fine. I'm just going with what they are saying.

Why are you taking a post by me more many hours ago and twisting it to mean something else entirely, then applying it to right now?
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#4178 Postby jkt21787 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:12 am

thermos wrote:
jkt21787 wrote:
thermos wrote:Cooling cloud tops means strengthening just like the NHC said and not like these others are saying.

Hello? How thick is your head? Do you just ignore every post but your own? Do I need to explain for the thousandth time about this? Jeez...

People like you are why I am mere seconds away from leaving this board permanently.


I read your posts. Very interesting. :roll:

Read wxguys 1st paragraph in his post, then call him an idiot too.
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#4179 Postby THead » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:12 am

thermos wrote:Cooling cloud tops means strengthening just like the NHC said and not like these others are saying.


Ok, now you're just getting out of line. Nobody is saying otherwise. You're just failing to understand the explanation given 7 hours ago about the sunset's effect. Let it go already.
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#4180 Postby jkt21787 » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:13 am

THead wrote:
thermos wrote:Cooling cloud tops means strengthening just like the NHC said and not like these others are saying.


Ok, now you're just getting out of line. Nobody is saying otherwise. You're just failing to understand the explanation given 7 hours ago about the sunset's effect. Let it go already.

THANK YOU!!!

Thermos you are all alone. Roll your eyes at yourself.
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