Scientists Spot a new Earthlike Planet bigger than Pluto

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Terrell
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#21 Postby Terrell » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:10 am

milankovitch wrote:It wouldn't just be a plant with the right atmosphere, there is only one way to get an oxygen atmosphere, life. Although who knows one of the rovers might find a fossil on some hillside. :lol:


Exactly what I had in mind by the Mars program getting lucky.
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#22 Postby Terrell » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:20 am

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:This is wonderful, not so long ago we could never find a rockie planet outside of our solar system. In now we got one. Its 5 times the size of earth just think of the pressure being 5 times that of earth...That would also hold a thicker Atmopshere an weather. Maybe even some kind of ocean. Hell there might even be hurricanes!!!

Its time to start building the ships!!!


So this proves that rockie planets can be much bigger then earth.


Yes, but maybe the atmosphere is no thicker than Earth. Titan (Saturn's largest moon), is about 4/5 the size of Mars but has a thicker and more distended atmosphere than Earth. Would like to know what this new planet's atmosphere is composed of, Earth's is mostly Nitrogen, followed by Oxygen.

Gravity is probably heavier than Earth's on the surface, but it may not be 5x the surface gravity as gravity decreases as you get further away from the Core of a planet (or any other celestial body large enough to have it's own gravity). We also need to know about the density of the planet and determine the size of the planet to determine just how strong it's surface gravity is.

Still is an excellent discovery though. Maybe we'll find an earth around a younger star that we can make our first interstellar mission (unmanned) to explore, it'll take some serious advances to do so though.
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#23 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:30 am

How about ion drive? We can maybe in 10 years build a scout ship with one of these. But this one would be powered by a thermonuclear reactors...In around 10 years from now the ion drive could be 10 times more powerful.

In plus Ion drive gets faster over time...So we would make this planet in 1/100 or 1/1,000 of the time other wise.


Faster space engine stingy on fuel


A new ion engine that promises to propel spacecraft faster and further is four times more fuel efficient than the best available, scientists say.

They say the results of recent tests suggest the engine, the Dual Stage Four Grid Thruster (DS4G), would reduce the time for craft to reach Mars or Pluto and beyond.

Dr Orson Sutherland and team at the Australian National University's Space Plasma Power and Propulsion Group designed and built the engine with the European Space Agency (ESA).

Sutherland says laboratory tests show the DS4G it is four times more fuel efficient than the best ion engines available and 10 times more fuel efficient than used to propel ESA's SMART-1 Moon mission.

"The underlying technology has been around for 40 years," he says. "All we did with the DS4G is to add some extra components which basically gave it a 10-fold improvement."

Sutherland says missions to Pluto and the Kuiper Belt would be "quite easily" made, with trips out beyond the solar system also more feasible.

"All of that within the working lifetime of a mission scientist," he says.

Another option is the new engine could help take heavier missions to shorter distances such as the Moon or Mars.

How it works

A standard ion engine works by using electrodes to extract ions from plasma, in this case heated xenon gas.

The ions are focused into beams that accelerate through tiny holes in the electrodes and thrust metres out into space, propelling the spacecraft in the opposite direction.

The standard engine has only three electrodes, capable of generating up to 5000 volts between them.

Anything greater than this would cause the ion beams to miss the holes in the electrodes and hit the metal, destroying the electrodes and causing less efficient thrusting.

Sutherland found a way to add another electrode to the system and boost voltage up to 30,000 volts without the ion beams hitting the electrodes. He says, given enough power, it would be possible to generate 70,000 volts over the electrodes.

He says the bigger the voltage, the faster the ions in the beam accelerate, and the more efficient the propulsion.

ESA reports tests on DS4G produced an ion exhaust plume that travelled at 210,000 metres per second.

Trend towards ion propulsion

Sutherland says that over the past 10 years such ion propulsion thrusters have become more popular because they provide constant propulsion for a spacecraft.

By contrast, he says, conventional chemical thrusters, which rely on ballistics to get the spacecraft on the right path, give the spacecraft "one big kick" and then rely on it to coast along in space until it slows down.

Ion propulsion also means mission scientists can bettr control a spacecraft's steering, says Sutherland, compared to the one-off chemical thruster.

Nuclear powered?

Sutherland says the ion engine needs megawatts of power to generate the necessary voltage across the electrodes and to generate the ion-providing plasma.

"This particular thruster has high performance but the cost of that high performance is it requires more power to run," he says.

He says standard photovoltaic cells, as used on the SMART-1 mission, would not be adequate and an on-board power system would be required.

This would be necessary anyway if the engine was to propel a spacecraft into deep space where there is little available light, he says.

"People are talking about CTRs - controlled thermonuclear reactors - small plutonium chunks like, for example, the power system that just went up on the NASA mission to Pluto."

The DS4G, which was funded by ESA's Advanced Concepts Team, will undergo more testing before industry partners are sought for a mission, says Sutherland, who estimates this process will take at least 10 years.
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#24 Postby Terrell » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:56 am

I've heard about Ion Drive engines, The Science Channel sometimes has a show about the Deep Space One mission where a regular Ion drive was put through it's paces and performed successfully. I like the idea of putting an Ion drive, especially with the improvements you mention for missions to the Outer Solar System. Would be a nice engine for future missions to Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and beyond cutting years off of the travel time to just get there.

I do wonder how fast the Ion drive engines can go when given a year or two to thrust continuously. To send robotic missions to even the nearest stars at 1/10 the speed of light it would take 43 years to go to Alpha Centauri, 60 years to go to Barnard's star, 86 years to go to Sirius. If we could go 1/2, 1/3, or even 1/4 the speed of light interstellar robotic missions become more practical (and it would take enormous performance in our engines both in power and fuel efficency, as well as excellent navigation through unknown space, both in the extreme outer Solar System and interstellar space, to make sure we don't crash into anything) then robotic probes to other stars become a bit closer to being within reach.

We would also need probes that can think and navigate for themselves since sending signals from earth would not be practical when it takes years for the signal from the probe to reach us, and years for our reply to reach the probe. Same applies to actual reconnisance of other planets around other stars.
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#25 Postby tornadochaser1986 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:19 am

thats awesome
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#26 Postby cycloneye » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:35 pm

http://us.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/02/01 ... index.html

:uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow:

It's bigger than Pluto the new planet 2003 UB313 as they call it that way to identify it.
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#27 Postby Terrell » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:58 pm

cycloneye wrote:http://us.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/02/01/tenth.planet/index.html

:uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow:

It's bigger than Pluto the new planet 2003 UB313 as they call it that way to identify it.


Yes, but isn't this worthy of a thread of it's own, since the planet originally mentioned is an exoplanet, while 2003 UB 313 (tentatively named Xena by it's discoverers) orbits Sol.
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#28 Postby cycloneye » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:17 pm

Terrell wrote:
cycloneye wrote:http://us.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/02/01/tenth.planet/index.html

:uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow:

It's bigger than Pluto the new planet 2003 UB313 as they call it that way to identify it.


Yes, but isn't this worthy of a thread of it's own, since the planet originally mentioned is an exoplanet, while 2003 UB 313 (tentatively named Xena by it's discoverers) orbits Sol.


Really is another one Terrell? Well anyway let's keep discussing about both at this thread as good discussions haved been very interesting here.
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#29 Postby Terrell » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:25 pm

cycloneye wrote:
Terrell wrote:
cycloneye wrote:http://us.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/02/01/tenth.planet/index.html

:uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow: :uarrow:

It's bigger than Pluto the new planet 2003 UB313 as they call it that way to identify it.


Yes, but isn't this worthy of a thread of it's own, since the planet originally mentioned is an exoplanet, while 2003 UB 313 (tentatively named Xena by it's discoverers) orbits Sol.


Really is another one Terrell? Well anyway let's keep discussing about both at this thread as good discussions haved been very interesting here.


Yes, they're two different worlds, but I'm cool with it either way. I love anything about space exploration. Things like planets discovered around other stars make me very happy, New Horizons to Pluto, Voyager missions, Galileo Mission, Cassini/Huygens, are other examples.

These discoveries outside our Solar System make me wish we had some ships advanced enough to actually fly to these planets. Who knows, if we did so we'd probably find other planets in the star system we visit (ones too small to be detected by available means today). The ones within Sol's influence are cool too since we can realistically see missions to them using current technology.
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#30 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:11 am

At 3,000km this is starting to get very very hard to say its not a planet. Pluto is only 2,300kms on the other hand. I say because we need a good place mark to set the stage for the lower in for a planet, Pluto is best.

1# This stays 3,000km Pluto stays a planet...We get the 9th in 10th planet.

2# They find this around pluto size(Now not likely) in the quastion is up in the air. Most likely because Pluto been a planet for so long + its the best choice to lay that stadard on it stays a planet. Could go both ways, just depends on if they went to change there scale every 10 years.

3# They find this to be around 3,400 or 3,500kms about the size of the Moon. They down grade Pluto, and then make this the 9th planet. Which would be the closes steping off choice.
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#31 Postby Terrell » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:58 pm

I think setting Pluto as the lower limit for planet in terms of size works for me. If size was the sole determining factor for planets, Mercury's status would also be in question in my opinion. Currently we know of 2 moons that are larger than Mercury (Ganymede and Titan both of which are about 4/5 the size of Mars) and 7 moons that are larger than Pluto (Luna, Io, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto, Titan, and Triton)

Other interesting things on this issue Pluto has an atmosphere, though extremely thin, (for at least part of it's year) while Mercury has none (though Titan, Saturn's largest moon, has a thicker atmosphere than Mercury, Earth, Mars, and Pluto), Pluto has 3 moons while Mercury and Venus have none (but then again Asteroid Ida has a tiny moon named Dactyl). The more I look at this the more complicated it seems to become though.
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