no one is "entitled" to someone else's money. must

[Stephanie]

Actually, I think I've toughened up abit on discussing politics since I've been on these forums. I've always been one for trying not to offend other people (believe it or not ) and trying to figure out why my opinion was "wrong" compared to everyone elses. I've learned that my opinion matters just as much as the next person's, no matter how far apart we are. What it comes down to is respecting what each other believes in, enhancing your views with what you've learned from them and remembering it is okay to disagree with each other.

[j]

I wonder if those same young conservatives would be willing to give up their $15,000 a month pension when they would retire from the Senate or House (assuming, of course, they were elected there to begin with)? This is also paid by our tax money.

To expand a little....and I don't know how much of this is actually fact, but doesn't really matter...portions are true...and that's ENOUGH!:

SOCIAL SECURITY:
Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election
years. Our Senators and Congress men &women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.


You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.

In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.

For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die, except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.

For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each.

Their cost for this excellent plan is $00.00. Nada.
Zilch.
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds-our tax dollars at work!

From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into-every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) --we can expect to get an average $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000. monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal
Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!

Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.

That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it.

[Stephanie]

I wonder if those same young conservatives would be willing to give up their $15,000 a month pension when they would retire from the Senate or House (assuming, of course, they were elected there to begin with)? This is also paid by our tax money.

To expand a little....and I don't know how much of this is actually fact, but doesn't really matter...portions are true...and that's ENOUGH!:

SOCIAL SECURITY:
Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election
years. Our Senators and Congress men &women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.


You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.

In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.

For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die, except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.

For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each.

Their cost for this excellent plan is $00.00. Nada.
Zilch.
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds-our tax dollars at work!

From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into-every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) --we can expect to get an average $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000. monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal
Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!

Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.

That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it.

I agree - that's exactly what I was referring to.

We all have the power to enforce change - through writing, telephone calls and VOTES. It's about time that our government actually looked out for the common man and not their own pockets. We need people now with the b*lls to actually make some hard decisions and changes for the better. We may actually see that these tax cuts are fiscally warranted afterall!

[j]

Steph...I'm so proud of you...You are sounding more and more like a Conservative every day!

I'll bet you've been listening to Rush some more!

[Stephanie]

Steph...I'm so proud of you...You are sounding more and more like a Conservative every day!

I'll bet you've been listening to Rush some more!

ARRRRGGGGGHHH!!!

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!


Have you been sending subliminal messages to me????? :o

[mf_dolphin]

Look Deeply Into My Eyes STEPHANIE! You are feeling conservative......

[streetsoldier]

Stephanie, you are feelink ferry drowsy now...zer arms are heavy....zer leks are heavy...ze breathink is slow...you vill sleep at ze count of sree...one, two, sree.

Stephanie, you can hear me? Ferry goot.

Now, zen....Hillary is a mean lady. Rush Limbaugh is ze best ting zat ever happent to ze peeple. Gun control iss skveezink ze trigger. Velfare meens a hant-OOP, not a hant-OUT. Karl Marx soox. Prezident Boosh iss alvays right. Beel Klinton iss a ray-pist. Cho Leebermann iss an eedioht.

You vill avaken, but you VILL remember al zis. At zer count of sree....one, two, sree.

[mf_dolphin]

ROFLMBO @ Bill!

[isobar]

[Stephanie]

WHHAAA HAPPENED???

I keep hearing Rush/Bush, Rush/Bush...

Am I supposed to be getting a rush from Busch beer? :?

[rainstorm]

Helen, many people are not educated enough to save their money. How many people do you know that go out and blow their paycheck and then have nothing for a rainy day.

Yes, the gov't does use our money poorly in some instances. Like I really care how cow gas effects the atmosphere.

But for cases like Bill, thank God the Social Security system was in place. When a friend of mine died and left two children motherless, thank God for Social Security. They will not be without because the mother paid into Social Security.

If you are so unhappy about the government taking your money, I'm sure there are other countries that you could move to and not have to pay taxes. I do not mean to offend you, this is just my view.

PS - I am in the 28% tax bracket and am putting more into the system than you are but I'm not complaining.

to make up for peoples poor choices. if a person wants to take their money and try to get rich by buying lottery tickets, thats their decision.
the same as having children. if you have them, pay for them. dont reach into my pocket and steal my money to pay for your decision.
again, the ss money confiscated from peoples checks does not belong to them. it is money the politicians use to buy votes. try and get the govt to send you "your" money tomorrow. if a person at 40 years of age could get their money from the govt in a lump sum and then reinvested it in the private sector, they would be infinitely better off at the age of 65. plus, the money would actually belong to them. dems will never allow that to happen though, because they would no longer be able to control people through fear.
by the way, why doesnt jessie jackson speak out on the theft of money by the govt from the blacks he supposedly cares so much about? the govt counts on black males dying before they can collect a cent of the money the govt confiscated from their paychecks. frankly, it amazes me that anyone thinks democrats in general care about the poor or blacks. democrats are also the ones who stand at the doors of failed inner city schools and refuse to allow black parents to opt out of govt contrlloed schools. but again, education and economic freedom would loosen alot of poor and black voters from the democrat party.

[rainstorm]

I wonder if those same young conservatives would be willing to give up their $15,000 a month pension when they would retire from the Senate or House (assuming, of course, they were elected there to begin with)? This is also paid by our tax money.

To expand a little....and I don't know how much of this is actually fact, but doesn't really matter...portions are true...and that's ENOUGH!:

SOCIAL SECURITY:
Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election
years. Our Senators and Congress men &women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.


You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.

In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.

For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die, except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.

For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each.

Their cost for this excellent plan is $00.00. Nada.
Zilch.
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds-our tax dollars at work!

From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into-every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) --we can expect to get an average $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000. monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal
Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!

Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.

That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it.

if someone ecides they want the govt to hold their money for them, thats fine.
if someone want to paritally control their own money thats fine
and if someone wants to totally control their own money thats fine too.
however the govt will never allow choice because the ss system would quickly collapse.
the economic boom that would occur when all that money flowed into the private sector would encourage almost everyone to take thier money from the govt as they saw their neighbors getting rich.
also, the ss system would collapse as it depends on never having to pay a cent back to many people they confiscate money from.
people would be better off taking thier money and stuffing it in a mattress than giving it to the govt to hold. at least a person knows that money belongs to them when thay have it in the mattress, hehe

[streetsoldier]

Does anyone else (mf_dolphin, please) feel that "this horse has been beaten to death"?

Enough, already!!!!!

[Stephanie]

The point is Rainstorm that there are many out there that wouldn't take the responsibility to stuff money away for a rainy day and we would still pay for that one way or another.

Yes, Bill, the horse is dead! :o

[WidreMann]

Well, it isn't really your money inasmuch as it is anybody's money. Money is essentially a contract with society. The contract is that you have performed some function that society deems useful to it and you, in return, have access to something useful from society (or rather, from any element in society) equal in value. However, society always determines the value, not you. And additionally, if society decides that you don't really deserve your money, then too bad, it's not your money because it's not really anything in the first case except for a contract with society.

The government and the economy are two sides of the same coin of society that I speak of. The economy is the private sector and the government is the public sector. The government is that part of the society coin that has to do stuff and everyone has to give money to them. Why? Because the government is in place to do all the stuff that the private sector cannot efficiently or consistently accomplish. In other words, it fills in the gaps. And since it has to be a system that always works (because it is doing things that wouldn't ordinarily be done using the free market alone), it always has to get money from the participants in the society. To some degree, this is true of the private sector as well, but since we don't pay into one big bucket to get what we want and instead pay into many little buckets, we feel like we have more control, and also because we pay ONLY for what we deem necessary for ourselves. But, once again, the government is doing all the stuff we don't want to do (and if we were doing it, then we wouldn't need the government). Thus, the government is a necessary evil. And moreover, if people here really knew how much they relied on the government, directly and indirectly, they would be much more willing to part with "their" money. That doesn't mean that everything the government spends money on is worthwhile by default. My problem lies with people like rainstorm who have this twisted idea that the government just goes around stealing money to redistribute it and that that's bad. Well, that's how the private sector works as well. Companies provide goods and services that we need and we are forced to buy from them and they take the money and spend it on other things. It's really just the same and it's the only way it can work in a capitalist system. That is, unless you, rainstorm, want to get rid of money altogether.