Landis tests positive

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P.K.
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#21 Postby P.K. » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:53 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:I know 1998 Giro D'Italia and Tour de France winner was suspended for 9 months for Insulin back in 2001 (one of his many doping suspensions)


That was Marco Pantani wasn't it? If I remember rightly he also died a few years ago due to drug use.
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#22 Postby Janice » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:19 pm

Floyd denies cheating
Landis says he didn't dope during Tour de France


Posted: Thursday July 27, 2006 3:46PM; Updated: Thursday July 27, 2006 4:02PM


Floyd Landis says he didn't cheat during his Tour de France victory.

Floyd says he didn't do it -- didn't inject testosterone, didn't apply a testosterone patch to any part of his body. Floyd Landis just returned my call, and I asked him straight up: "Did you do it, bro?"

He said, "No, c'mon man," in what would turn out to be the first of several denials.

I want very badly to believe him.

Landis had been crying. Not for himself -- he'd just gotten off the phone with his mother, Arlene, who has been driven from the family home in Farmersville, Pa., by reporters scavenging for quotes. "I know it's their job," he said, sadly, "but they need to leave her out of this."

The A sample from the urine test to which he submitted after Stage 17 shows "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone." Landis told me he "can't be hopeful" that the B sample will be any different than the A. "I'm a realist," he said.

Landis says that an elevated level of testosterone is different from a positive test. He says this is a fairly common problem among pro cyclists. He's retaining the services of a Spanish doctor named Luis Hernandez, who has helped other riders shown by tests to have elevated levels of testosterone. "In hundreds of cases," Landis told me, "no one's ever lost one."

It's too early to tell if he's going to be on solid footing or if he's clutching at straws. The next step, he says, is to submit to an endocrine test that may help him prove that he just happens to be a guy walking around with an inordinate amount of testosterone in his blood.

He raised the possibility that the cortisone shots he's been taking for his ravaged right hip -- the hip he'll soon have replaced -- may have had some effect on the test. Then he revealed this: "I've had a thyroid condition for the last year or so and have been taking small amounts of thyroid hormone. It's an oral dose, once a day."

He raised the possibility that that medication may have skewed the test that appears to damn him.

He knows how bad this looks, and told me, "I wouldn't hold it against somebody if they don't believe me."

I don't know what to believe. I was surprised he returned my call.

"You were there when nobody else was," he told me, "so I thought I'd better call you back."

He was talking about a visit I paid to the team bus a week ago today. The day before -- in what had been his lowest moment in many weeks -- Landis appeared to have ridden himself off the podium and out of the top 10. As the Tour had unfolded, as he'd taken the lead and then relinquished it, then cracked spectacularly, he had not seemed like a rider under the influence of performance-enhancing drugs. In fact, the French were down on him for racing too conservatively, for not attacking or going for stage wins.

The next morning I went by the Phonak team bus (as I wrote in my Tour dispatch a week ago). It was eerily deserted, Landis having already been dubbed irrelevant. He sat on the steps of the bus and we chatted. After his incredible ride that day, I was a little embarrassed by what I'd said: I told him I respected that he'd finished the stage, no matter how long it took. I told him I looked forward to seeing what he did in the final time trial -- something about silver linings.

He smiled, and told me, basically, that he expected to make up some of that time that afternoon. He told me he was feeling better.

He went out rode himself into the lore of the Tour.

What to make of that ride now?




http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/w ... ml?cnn=yes


.
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#23 Postby Derek Ortt » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:33 pm

yeah... that was good old Pantani... one of the worst cheats in history (yet the LA haters say he never doped yet Lance did)
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#24 Postby george_r_1961 » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:13 pm

Instead of using chemicals to enhance their performance why dont they just condition and take care of themselves??? In other words WORK OUT!


As someone who has NEVER cheated in any type of competition I have no patience for people that do....none at all. And taking chemicals to enhance your performance IS cheating. Period.
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#25 Postby Derek Ortt » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:02 pm

the doping is done in conjuntion with extensive training, not in replace of it
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#26 Postby george_r_1961 » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:06 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:the doping is done in conjuntion with extensive training, not in replace of it



Key word here Derek is "doping" There is no place for this in sports..or anywhere else for that matter. Did anyone stop to think with the long term effects of elevated testosterone are?? Duckie or one of our other medical ppl can chime in on this.
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#27 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:57 pm

george_r_1961 wrote:Instead of using chemicals to enhance their performance why dont they just condition and take care of themselves??? In other words WORK OUT!


As someone who has NEVER cheated in any type of competition I have no patience for people that do....none at all. And taking chemicals to enhance your performance IS cheating. Period.


Agree with you 1000 % on this. I told my nephews that if they're that worried about becoming "buff"... then eat LOTS of protein (meats, legumes, dairy).. and PUMP IRON. It's the natural way to do it.. it's longer lasting, if done strictly to build up, tone, and maintain the body's muscles, it will not cause cancer, heart disease, and/or multifarious unrinary tract/kidney issues--and its not "Cheating".

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#28 Postby Regit » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:23 pm

Audrey2Katrina wrote:
george_r_1961 wrote:Instead of using chemicals to enhance their performance why dont they just condition and take care of themselves??? In other words WORK OUT!


As someone who has NEVER cheated in any type of competition I have no patience for people that do....none at all. And taking chemicals to enhance your performance IS cheating. Period.


Agree with you 1000 % on this. I told my nephews that if they're that worried about becoming "buff"... then eat LOTS of protein (meats, legumes, dairy).. and PUMP IRON. It's the natural way to do it.. it's longer lasting, if done strictly to build up, tone, and maintain the body's muscles, it will not cause cancer, heart disease, and/or multifarious unrinary tract/kidney issues--and its not "Cheating".

A2K


In fact, it will help prevent them.

It's a shame what some athletes will put themselves through to win.

I remember a few years back (I think around the time of the 2000 olympics) a poll was taken of some olympic athletes. A large percentage of them said that if there was a pill that would guarantee them a gold medal, but also guarantee they would die by age 30, they would take it.
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#29 Postby Janice » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:34 pm

And to think some of these guys are breaking the law and rules of the sport and still getting paid big bucks. I suppose they go as far as they can before getting caught and have the money to hire good, big attorneys.
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#30 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:36 pm

Well, I'm no endocrinologist; but I did do a LOT of research into these "enhancers" (nice PC term for cheat supplements) when a lot of young folks began to ask me about things like creatine, nitric-oxide, nitroxen (L-Arginine mostly) and a product called "andro" which is short for androstenedione--not an anabolic steroid; but a PRO-hormone, which can cause "enhancement" or elevation in levels of both/either testosterone, or estrogen. Good lord, but a cursory review of some of the "ingredients" in these things is enough to scare the hell out of a Nobel Laureate in Chemistry! I scared the bejeezus out of 'em by showing a few preliminary reports I'd already received on this stuff, and around 2002 or 2003 the FDA through Health and Human Resources, finally issued a press release confirming the dangers of that stuff:

Androstenedione is produced naturally in humans during the production of testosterone and estrogen. It is considered an anabolic steroid precursor because it can be converted in the body to testosterone. Scientific evidence shows that when androstenedione is taken over time and in sufficient quantities, it may increase the risk of serious and life-threatening diseases.


If you want the full press release from the FDA it's here :darrow:

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/hhs_031104.html

As far as increasing testosterone (an androgen) things it could be associated with include:
testicular cancer, the presence of a tumor in either the testicle or the adrenal glands (Perhaps they should read about what this caused Lance to go through)
Pituitary issues (a hormone regulating its production is released from here.

Of a lesser risk, is the premature puberty associated with the very young who have high levels--as here we're talking about adults and young adults. The normal male count is between 300-1,000 nanograms/dL of blood, I do know that all the hormonal therapy talk makes it sound like higher is better, especially for men once they cross the peak years of their 30's. If so, I'd recommend strictly under the supervision of a competent endocrinologist as some of the risk factors of elevated levels of this hormone include mostly psycho-physiological tendencies to engage in much more aggressive, dangerous, and high-risk behaviors such as excessive drinking, much more prone to smoking, highly aggressive behavior, and higher levels of STD's.

The news isn't all bad; because for males past 40, the hormone regulating its production slows down--and with that come some pretty uncomfortable side effects of their own (which is why I suggest a good endocrinologist) as males who keep the levels in the upper "normal" range are far less likely to have high BP, and run the risk of heart problems.

Sorry if that was a side-track... but the question was asked, and I think the information is important. Anyone wanting the sources to back that up, I can provide it. Now back to Landis! :wink:

A2K
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#31 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:40 pm

In fact, it will help prevent them.

It's a shame what some athletes will put themselves through to win.


A major point of agreement, Regit! Good nutrition, and physical exercise is the very BEST way to stay healthy, and reduce risk factors for many "dread" diseases, this has been proven time and time again. And yes, it's tragic what athletes, particularly the young who so desperately want to compete in today's highly "winner" mentality will risk in order to attain that fleeting objective.

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#32 Postby Janice » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:15 am

Landis: Tour win due to 'heart,' not drugs

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/28/landis.lkl/index.html

Floyd Landis tells Larry King, "This is not a doping case, but a natural occurrence."

(CNN) -- Tour de France champion Floyd Landis said Friday that his victory in the world's most-famous bike race last week had nothing to do with cheating.

It was "heart and determination and 15 years of hard work" that paid off, Landis told CNN's "Larry King Live" in an interview Friday from Madrid, Spain.

The 30-year-old American tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone -- a possible sign of the use of steroids -- after an astounding comeback to win stage 17 in the French Alps, just a day after a disastrous showing that all but knocked him out of contention. (Watch Landis tell King why this wasn't really a positive test result -- 3:52)

"I'd love to continue in this sport. It's been my passion and my dream, and it's a beautiful sport," Landis said. "I would love to keep racing, and I'm going to do my best to defend my dignity and my innocence."

Landis reiterated to King a claim he made at a news conference earlier in the day: He has never taken performance-enhancing drugs and he has no idea why the test indicated his testosterone levels were abnormal.

"This is not a doping case, but a natural occurrence," the 30-year-old American cyclist told reporters at the news conference. "I declare convincingly and categorically that my winning the Tour de France has been exclusively due to many years of training and my complete devotion to cycling."

After the 17th stage, Landis gave a urine sample that showed the ratio of testosterone to another hormone, epitestosterone, in his system was abnormally high. Specific results haven't been released, but the World Anti-Doping Agency categorizes a ratio of 4-to-1 or higher as an adverse result.

A high ratio can indicate that a competitor is using anabolic steroids, according to the anti-doping agency. But the ratio can naturally vary among people, and Landis said his normal levels have never been recorded.

"It's not a positive test in the same criteria of finding something" introduced from outside the body, Landis said. "What this test shows is an abnormal ratio of two naturally occurring substances."

Landis conceded that the storybook nature of his win has increased suspicion. Competing with an injured hip and thyroid condition, Landis had a disastrous ride the day before he made up 8 minutes on the leader and put himself in position to win.

Despite the circumstances, there is nothing suspicious about the victory, Landis said.

"It was my dream. And when you get to that point when you're inspired, and you're somewhere you've always dreamt of being and nothing else matters, you can push yourself to limits you couldn't push yourself to before," he said.

Landis was tested eight other times during the race -- six times before the abnormal test result and twice afterward -- and he has not been told that any of those tests had unusual outcomes, he said.

Regardless, Landis' physician, Dr. Brent Kay, said that testosterone would have done nothing to help Landis win the race.

"Testosterone is a body-building steroid that that builds mass over long-term use of weeks, months or even years," Kay said. "It's crazy to think that a Tour de France professional cyclist would be using testosterone, particularly in the middle of a race. It's a joke."

Also, the abnormal ratio could mean a low epitestosterone level rather than a high testosterone level, Kay said.

Landis had been taking two medications during the race -- injections of cortisone to deal with a chronic hip injury and a thyroid hormone used to treat a condition known as Hashimoto's disease, with which he was diagnosed two years ago.

Kay said it appears unlikely that either medication could have caused the result.

Landis had a waiver to take cortisone; the thyroid medication did not require a waiver because it is not considered a performance-enhancing substance.

Landis said he will request that a second sample, taken at the same time as the one with abnormal levels, be tested. If the results are confirmed, he could be stripped of his Tour de France victory and face disciplinary action from the sport's governing body, the International Cycling Union.

In the meantime, his cycling team, Phonak, has pulled Landis from the racing circuit and announced that he will be dismissed from the team if the second test confirms the results of the first.
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#33 Postby Derek Ortt » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:25 am

Landis is probably lying just like Tyler Hamilton, a former PHONAK rider did 2 years ago.

if he had a naturally high testosterone level, then why did he never test positive before? He has only been tested hundreds of times, and this is the first time this came up

The Phonak team needs to be banned for 30 years, as there seems to be team doping going on
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