How to keep control?

[blizzard]

Here is what today's laws are creating. What is with the laws against discipline of children? Lets hear your thoughts. Please no personal attacks on other's ideas. Keep it respectful please.



Cops Say 9-Year-Old's Crime Spree Included Stealing School Bus

POSTED: 7:05 a.m. EDT July 25, 2003
UPDATED: 7:09 a.m. EDT July 25, 2003

BUENA BOROUGH -- Not everyone is chuckling about the 9-year-old who stole a school bus and took it on a joyride around Buena Tuesday night.

Police Chief Douglas Adams is well-acquainted with the youth -- in the last year, he has had more than 70 brushes with the law.

Adams thinks the crimes are a serious cry for attention. Though people in the town describe him as polite and cute, the boy's aunt and grandmother say they are unable to handle him.

The boy was sent to Harborfields Juevenile Detention Center in Egg Harbor City Tuesday night but has since been released.

"The boy is in need of direct supervision and counseling," Adams said. "There's no reason for him to be out on the street committing this amount of crime."
Copyright 2003 by WNBC.com The Associated Press contributed to this report. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


This scares the HE!! out of me. It can happen in any town in any state, no matter the size. How can one control these younsters.

[JetMaxx]

One thing I noted....it mentions and aunt and grandmother - but no mention of mom and dad.
I've been around enough nine-year olds to know there's something very wrong in this child's life...the home enviroment he's being raised in.

Yes, boys will be boys and some get into trouble at a young age...but 70 times in less than a year??? That alone is shocking...

Let me tell a story from my past..."a brush with the law"..

When I was about 10, I wanted a $1.95 paperback NFL football stats book in a pharmacy located in the same shopping center where my dad was also the asst. manager of a paint store. I sneaked into that pharmacy, and stole that book (after dad refused to buy it for me earlier in the day).

I made a clean getaway...at least until my father caught me reading it in the paint store stockroom. What did dad do? Well, number one...he spanked me with his belt...striped my be-hind. After I stopped crying, he marched me back to that pharmacy and made me confess to the store manager, apologize...and then dad paid for the football book I shoplifted..and let the manager keep the book.

I swept and mopped dad's paint store for two Saturday's to pay him back for a football book he didn't let me have after he paid for it. Some might say it was cruel...what it was instead was teaching me right from wrong; and the consequences of my actions. Nearing age 42, I've never stolen anything else in my life....and have never been arrested...not as a juvenile or adult.

This nine year old boy that stole a school bus needs the kind of dad now that I had then....and for the sake of us all, he needs it ASAP!

PW

[Lindaloo]

Some children experience emotional disabilities. This indeed sounds like what is happening with this child. If this child at nine years old is well known by police then someone needs to step in and help this child.

Perry, you are correct about the no mention of either parent which only furthers my belief this child is suffering emotionally and is indeed crying out for help in his escapades. This little fella is to be pitied not scrutinized.

[JetMaxx]

Oh, I agree 100% Lindaloo. I don't blame the child...not a 9 year old little boy. It's his mom and dad I'd like to take to the woodshed. That child needs love and guidance he's not getting.

IMO that little boy needs love from loving parents more than he needs a spanking....much more..
I don't even believe in spankings....but I do believe in discipline...
Why I no longer believe in spanking? My brother in law David has never had a spanking in his life; and at age 37 is a well respected account manager in the computer industry; an honors graduate in both high school and college, and is both a wonderful father and husband. He recieved loving discipline when growing up and is a gentleman today because of it.

When I swiped that book at age 10....the humiliation of having to face that store manager and apologize was far worse than daddy's belt. Even mom's look of dissapointment was worse. In retrospect, the spanking was honestly the least humiliating aspect of that Saturday long ago.

PW

[Stephanie]

That borough isn't that far away from me.

That child obviously needs some help and quickly. His parents either can't are unwilling to try and control this boy. I think that it should be mandated by the courts that he receive immediate psychological counseling and I hate to say it with all of the bad press, the Division of Youth and Family Services (DYFS) should be monitoring him. HOWEVER, DYFS has been notoriously inept and careless in actually preventing abuse and volatile home situations from getting out of hand. It was only a few weeks ago that a father had killed his daughter and son and killed himself in a town about 15 miles away from here. The only other alternatives for this child is juvenile detention or a mental institution that I could think of. However, something has got to change and FAST!

[pvroses]

This child needed help long ago.Hopefully he'll get some now. It's so scarey to me the amount of kids who "fall through the cracks" or who are'nt found at all. People need to wake up and realize what holds the first priority in their lives. Big house ? two new cars? Boats? Vacations? Alcohol? Drugs? My career? Parents have become so Da*n selfish and have forgotten that the children in their lives need unconditional love,structure,disapline,and TIME. The "Quality over Quanity" stuff is crap. You have to spend time w/ your children to be able to notice when something is wrong,especially when they get older ! Nothing wrong w/ policing your kids. It keeps them safe. Just my 2 cents ~K

[Stephanie]

A follow up to this story (from The Philadelphia Inquirer)-

He does see a psychiatrist two times a week. He is cared for by his aunt and his grandmother who is his legal guardian. Both are partially blind. He has been in and out of hospitals because of a genetic intestinal disorder which has resulted in 2 colonstomies before he was 3.

The child's mother left him in the care of relatives when he was 18 months old is in California with three other younger children. The father who lives in South Jersey, sometimes helped to care for him, but has cutoff contact when he married about a year ago.

The boy's uncle, his godfather, had left on military assignment out of state about a year ago.

DYFS has been trying to help the family too.

A very sad story indeed!

[Amanzi]

You are right Steph... this is very very sad. To see such a precious life "abused" by the very people who should be standing at his side and giving him guidence and most of all unconditional love!

With children a little bit of love goes a really long way, of course prayer is essential, prayer as a parent for wisdom and guidence from the Father himself. Children need boundaries and rules, and there needs to be a set of consiquences faced if a rule is broken (every time, not just some of the time) But most of all a child needs to have love affirmed continually, to build there confidence and self respect... just my 2 cents worth

[streetsoldier]

This is a classic case of child abandonment by all responsible parties....I'd like to see some arrests and prosecutions made on behalf of this child, and others like him.

[azskyman]

Interesting in-depth topic.

David Altman's mother was sitting in front of my desk. David was sitting next to her. He was 11 years old. It was parent-teacher conference time. I was maybe 28 years old and in maybe my 4th or 5th year of teaching.

"Do whatever you need to with David," she said with a plea in her voice. "David's father is not around, and I can't do anything with him any more. If you need to keep him after school, paddle him, or control him in some other way, it is fine with me."

Eleven years old he was. Precocious and cunning, he was always doing whatever he could to get attention...good, bad, or otherwise, in class. A bright young man, he just didn't apply himself. There were days I wanted to ring David's neck for disrupting the class. I would send him to the hallway or to the principal's office.

But for his mom to write him off at age eleven? Seemed so tragic to me.

David's school years were rocky..not even sure he finished high school. I had left teaching by that time. But I knew David had a lot of turmoil in his life...years and years without discipline, without real effort, without a loving and caring environment. It finally took its toll.

Probably been at least ten years now...maybe more. As I recall, David lost his battle with frustration and murdered another of my former students, his live-in girlfriend (or maybe it was his wife), Linda.

A little bit of me says I might have been able to change that course of events if I had tried harder to help David...or get him the attention he was seeking. Sad sad sad story

So.....much like your story portrays, there are clearly instances where child neglect can deteriorate the envioronment for him/her to a point where he/she will strike out at someone who really cares the most.

[JetMaxx]

Steve, in my experience...most of the guys that started out like that...in trouble at school by the 4th-5th grade; most of those guys I went to school with like that are now either in prison, have been in prison...or they are dead

[Stephanie]

It's obvious that the aunt and Grandmother can't handle/take care of him - I'm sure that they have alot of love to share and have tried to share with him, but he obviously needs alot more - alomost like a Big Brother to be there for him.

HOPEFULLY, his mother is doing alot better raising the three children she has in California, but I can't understand how if she wants those kids, why she wouldn't want her son.

Steve - that is a tragic story about the mother and the 11 year old boy. I believe that even how hard you may have tried to help him, he would've needed alot more. Please don't beat yourself up on this!

[Lindaloo]

Statistics show that there are more and more Grandparents raising their grandchildren, my parents included. They received my niece when she was 2 days old. When my sister re-married and moved to California, Melissa at the age of 5 gave it a go with her Mom at the blessing of my parents. It was very hard for my parents to do this I might add. After only 2 weeks my sister flew Melissa back to my parents because she said she did not have the patience with her. My parents adopted her. Melissa is now employed with a news agency in South Carolina. She is 23. All I can say is, thank goodness for my parents. Melissa will not have anything to do with her birth mother, even though my sister has tried. I side with Melissa on that issue.

My point is... thank goodness that Melissa had my parents and received the love from all of us to make it. Some children can become so bitter that they do not see things clearly and can end up like Perry said, in deep trouble or dead.

[CajunMama]

Parents instill their own values in their children. As the priest of my daughter's elementary school told us, "The greatest gift you can give your child is the word No. If you bail them out of trouble now and not let them accept their responsiblilty for their actions, you will be bailing them out the rest of their lives."

Evidently, the mother of the young boy did not want to be responsible for him. Was the grandmother not very responsible with the mother? I don't know. But to me it seems history is repeating itself.

Fortunately I rarely had to spank my children. I didn't use "time out" which I found totally useless but they did have something they treasured or a planned event taken away from them.

This "me, me, me" generation needs to wake up and realize that life does not revolve around just them. I find them very materialistic and cannot accept responsiblity. What did our generation do in raising our children to be so selfish?

Grandparents should not have to raise their grandchildren (yes, I realize that there are some special cases). If a couple thinks they are mature enough to have sex with it resulting in a pregnancy, then they need to be the ones raising the child. Or if they know they cannot raise the child, their are plenty of couples out there that cannot have children of their own and would willingly have adopted this child and given him love and guidance.

[Lindaloo]

Umm Cajun Mama... trust me, my parents instilled moral values in my sister who had her first child when she was 25 years old, she was not a teen!! And the fact that you mentioned that if a parent can't raise their own children then the grandparents are not capable is just as ridiculous.

Instead of bashing the grandparents, they should be commended for accepting the responsibility to raise their grandchildren.

[Stephanie]

Lindaloo - your niece, Melissa was very lucky to have your grandparents available and ABLE to raise her.

CajunMama - It is quite possible that history is repeating itself in that family, but it just seems to me that the aunt and grandmother can't handle him at all. The question is what is next for this young boy? Who should be giving him the discipline and care that he needs? I think in this boy's case, it unfortunately looks like he's going be one of those statistics that Perry had metioned.

[Lindaloo]

Thanks Steph.. I believe she was too.

And I agree 100% that this little boy will fall through the cracks.

But, you know, parents can raise their children a certain way and in the end the child does not do what he was taught. He ends up in jail anyway. Is that the parents fault? I do not think so. Peer pressure is a nightmare for parents. Not to mention gangs, guns and this devilish music these kids listen to in this day and age. I try to let my children be who they are but know what they are up to too. Talking is a great tool to establish with your children. When the talking stops, the trouble starts. Trust me... I know!!