Ladies and Gentlemen,
I consider myself both an American and a believer in God. It pains me to see how deeply divided my fellow Americans on this board seem to be about what seems to me to be the simplest of principles-the desire to let each person live and worship in his or her own way. After all, wasn't that why this great nation was founded?
As I recall, those brave Pilgrims sailed on the Mayflower to escape religious persecution. The Pilgrims were sick of people forcing religious rules and beliefs on them, and sailed to a basically uncharted wilderness to escape the tyranny.
Here we are so close to Christmas. Yes, Jesus may be the reason for the season at one home, but at another down the block the family might be lighting Hannukah candles. And two doors away, another family might be getting ready to light Kwaanza candles. Another family might even worship at a Mosque or Hindu temple. And there are many families who practice other religions and celebrate other holidays. There are even people who (bah humbug) don't celebrate anything at all this time of year.
Whether or not you or I believe in any of the holidays, right now, this year especially it's important to put aside our squabbling and join our collective hands. More important than at any time than I can remember.
Why? Turn on the tv or pick up a newspaper. Our Armed Forces are in harms way in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even though Saddam Hussein has been captured, the senseless killing of Americans and civilians continues.
Worse, there are people out there who hate you and me and want us dead. So much so, that they are willing to die so that we will die. Our country believes this threat is real and has elevated our terrorist threat. The people who hate us don't care what deity we pray to. They hate us. They want us dead. Maimed. Crippled. They view us as "Americans".
I hope you can all view yourself as Americans too. Because that's what we are. Against or for the war. Liberal or Conservative. Democrat or Republican. White or black. Fat or thin. Smart or dumb. Christian or Jew or Muslim. Whatever. We're all individuals united under the Stars and Stripes.
Your beliefs are dear to you. The beliefs of your neighbors are important to them as well. If we can't live comfortably with one another, how can we face the people who don't see as individuals? I honestly don't know.
BocaGirl
I am SOOOO sick of hearing "HAPPY HOLIDAYS!"
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mf_dolphin
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Rainband
Great point Marshallmf_dolphin wrote:I have no problem with someone wishing me a Happy Hannukah or Kwaanza because I take it in the spirit it's given. By the same right wishing someone Merry Christmas should be taken in the same light.Let's face it, we're all mutts kicked out of every other self respecting country!
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WoodstockWX
Most other countries hate us because we have so much more than them, wealth, freedom, materials, etc.
And we try to control the world, and after hearing stories of iraqee children being terrified to the point of suicide because of US troops marching down their streets.
Countries are in a way jealous, but they are also used to their own way of life.
The first war our country lost was Vietnam, and change takes a long time, I enjoy the discussions we have in History class becuase our teacher is the one saying a lot of this. It's not just cr@p us kids made up.
We are trying to change the middle east, even if it is for better it takes time, and we are basically rushing it and wasting american lives to do so.
I say support the troops, but don't support the government or the decisions they make.
And we try to control the world, and after hearing stories of iraqee children being terrified to the point of suicide because of US troops marching down their streets.
Countries are in a way jealous, but they are also used to their own way of life.
The first war our country lost was Vietnam, and change takes a long time, I enjoy the discussions we have in History class becuase our teacher is the one saying a lot of this. It's not just cr@p us kids made up.
We are trying to change the middle east, even if it is for better it takes time, and we are basically rushing it and wasting american lives to do so.
I say support the troops, but don't support the government or the decisions they make.
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streetsoldier
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Woodstock said
Christmas is a Christian holiday celebrating the birth of Christ. Christians did not impose the Christmas holiday upon you. You chose to celebrate it yourself. If you have a problem with Christmas, then quit celebrating it. Quit trying to wage a war with us little boy. You have a lot of growing up to do.
If it HAS to be called christmas, what about all of the other religions that make up MOST of the world?
Christmas is a Christian holiday celebrating the birth of Christ. Christians did not impose the Christmas holiday upon you. You chose to celebrate it yourself. If you have a problem with Christmas, then quit celebrating it. Quit trying to wage a war with us little boy. You have a lot of growing up to do.
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mf_dolphin
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WoodstockWX
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streetsoldier
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WoodstockWx...you truly cannot see that you are being indoctrinated, 1960's "hippee-turned-academic" style?? 
I expected more discernment of you...at least you put up a good fight, even if futile. I admire that in a young person!
As to that debate...I prefer to "eyeball" an opponent, gauging reaction/timing/underlying doctrine before "firing both barrels". And, I have never lost one to date.
I expected more discernment of you...at least you put up a good fight, even if futile. I admire that in a young person!
As to that debate...I prefer to "eyeball" an opponent, gauging reaction/timing/underlying doctrine before "firing both barrels". And, I have never lost one to date.
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[quote="WoodstockWX"]Most other countries hate us because we have so much more than them, wealth, freedom, materials, etc.
And we try to control the world, and after hearing stories of iraqee children being terrified to the point of suicide because of US troops marching down their streets.
Countries are in a way jealous, but they are also used to their own way of life.
The first war our country lost was Vietnam, and change takes a long time, I enjoy the discussions we have in History class becuase our teacher is the one saying a lot of this. It's not just cr@p us kids made up.
We are trying to change the middle east, even if it is for better it takes time, and we are basically rushing it and wasting american lives to do so.
I say support the troops, but don't support the government or the decisions they make.[/quote]
Woodstock, I have a teenage son, and I think it is great that you are questioning some of these things. If you continue to look at the world around you, you will grow up into an awesome person.
I would like you to consider a few things. First, it's true, many people from other countries hate us. Yet, there's a great paradox. Ask almost anyone from anywhere else where they's like to live and the answer is the United States. There's an interesting story about that very fact here: http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1021-12.htm . I'd like you to think about why that might be and come up with some of your own conclusions. You can PM me if you'd like. I won't put you down. I'd like your opinion, becaue I think it's important for you to understand.
Next to consider is the historical position of the United States. For that you need to study your American History. I am a former teacher, so I know what'm talking about here. If you can understand where our country has been in the last 200+ years, you'll have a better idea why we are doing the things we are doing now. Both domestically and in our foreign policy.
As for supporting the troops but not supporting the government, well, that's your right. Again, a brief look at American history will show you how and where the right was obtained, and at what cost. My advice might be to use that hard-earned right on a slight less opiniated forum, but hey, that's just me!
Looking forward to hearing from you.
BocaGirl[/quote]
And we try to control the world, and after hearing stories of iraqee children being terrified to the point of suicide because of US troops marching down their streets.
Countries are in a way jealous, but they are also used to their own way of life.
The first war our country lost was Vietnam, and change takes a long time, I enjoy the discussions we have in History class becuase our teacher is the one saying a lot of this. It's not just cr@p us kids made up.
We are trying to change the middle east, even if it is for better it takes time, and we are basically rushing it and wasting american lives to do so.
I say support the troops, but don't support the government or the decisions they make.[/quote]
Woodstock, I have a teenage son, and I think it is great that you are questioning some of these things. If you continue to look at the world around you, you will grow up into an awesome person.
I would like you to consider a few things. First, it's true, many people from other countries hate us. Yet, there's a great paradox. Ask almost anyone from anywhere else where they's like to live and the answer is the United States. There's an interesting story about that very fact here: http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1021-12.htm . I'd like you to think about why that might be and come up with some of your own conclusions. You can PM me if you'd like. I won't put you down. I'd like your opinion, becaue I think it's important for you to understand.
Next to consider is the historical position of the United States. For that you need to study your American History. I am a former teacher, so I know what'm talking about here. If you can understand where our country has been in the last 200+ years, you'll have a better idea why we are doing the things we are doing now. Both domestically and in our foreign policy.
As for supporting the troops but not supporting the government, well, that's your right. Again, a brief look at American history will show you how and where the right was obtained, and at what cost. My advice might be to use that hard-earned right on a slight less opiniated forum, but hey, that's just me!
Looking forward to hearing from you.
BocaGirl[/quote]
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WoodstockWX
streetsoldier wrote:WoodstockWx...you truly cannot see that you are being indoctrinated, 1960's "hippee-turned-academic" style??
I expected more discernment of you...at least you put up a good fight, even if futile. I admire that in a young person!
As to that debate...I prefer to "eyeball" an opponent, gauging reaction/timing/underlying doctrine before "firing both barrels". And, I have never lost one to date.
you don't have to be a hippie to be anti war.
my history teacher was born in the mid 60s.
how am I being indoctrinated?
I was anti war before I even took this course this year.
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Guest
Re: I am SOOOO sick of hearing "HAPPY HOLIDAYS!"
azsnowman wrote:What is UP with all this POLITICALY CORRECT GARBAGEDoesn't ANYONE wish anyone a "Merry Christmas" anymore? I swear, we were in our Super Walmart today, what a bunch of SOUR PUSSES I swear and to top it off, "NO CHRISTMAS" music playing, finished checking out, I was wished a HAPPY HOLIDAY, I turned to the checker (Michelle hides when I'm with her, if a checker Pis**S me off, I let them know it!) and asked her why she didn't wish me a Merry Christmas, you wanna know her reply???? "We're told NOT to say *that*, it *might* offend someone!" MY @%^, what is WRONG with people nowadays?? Sorry for the vent but this "REALLY FROSTS MY COOKIES!"
Dennis
Dennis, the checker probably needs that job, and unfortunately it is not this person's fault. Besides, having worked in retail during the Christmas/Hanakah/Winter Solstice season, I can tell you that people are disappointingly miserable during this time. Getting into it with her is not going to do anything but cause your poor wife some grief, who apparently isn't that happy when you do this. A good way to get around this is is to be a little subversive - smile and say "and you have a Merry Christmas". Everyone wins - you get a little dig in, your reply may be the nicest thing that person hears all day, and your wife doesn't feel like crawling into the rack under the shopping cart with the dog food. It's a mighty Christian thing to do.
Much more disappointing to me is the anger and stress people seem to experience. An almost amusing story I can relate to you and the rest of the board happened to me three years ago. I was driving my 73-year-old mother and my 90-year-old grandmother to the mall for a little Christmas shopping in mid-December during a visit to my hometown of York, PA. A rather large SUV was right on my tail. I was going 40 in a 35 zone, and this person was almost hitting the bumper of my Altima. I turned into the mall parking lot, with the apparently love-lorn SUV trying to have romantic relations with the tailpipe of my poor Altima. I was going through the mall parking lot on my way to the entrance to drop them off, when the SUV whipped around me, and flashed me the finger. Of course, if I had to stop suddenly, chances are very good my elderly relatives would have probably been killed or injured. As the guy went pass me, I saw two bumper stickers on his car - one said "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" and "What Would Jesus Do?". I am a church-going fella, and as hard as I wracked my brain, I didn't recall any parts of the Gospel that mentioned Jesus using a Ford Expedition or any other vehicle as a weapon (which, when you tailgate someone while driving, is what you are doing and this makes you a marginal human being at best).
I was quite upset about this, and as I fumed over this, I had a truly spiritual experience. I just then and there decided that nothing, the commercialization, the angry people, the crowded malls, the overt materialism - none of this is going to ruin my Christmas. After a while, the whole thing became pretty funny.
Anyway, I just enjoy the time of the year. I even had the honor of being at a Jewish friend's house for Hanakuh a few years ago, and greatly enjoyed that.
So, Dennis, have a Merry Christmas, and don't let decisions by corporate behemoths get you down. And Merry Christmas to the rest of you here at Storm2K.
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Rainband
I applaud that post Jenn MERRY CHRISTMASmrschad wrote:Woodstock saidIf it HAS to be called christmas, what about all of the other religions that make up MOST of the world?
Christmas is a Christian holiday celebrating the birth of Christ. Christians did not impose the Christmas holiday upon you. You chose to celebrate it yourself. If you have a problem with Christmas, then quit celebrating it. Quit trying to wage a war with us little boy. You have a lot of growing up to do.
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mf_dolphin
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I happen to be anti-war myself but sometimes war is the last stage of failed diplomacy. It's important to understand that diplomacy has to be two sided. While I think President Bush made some mistakes in presentation of his case, I do believe that the war against Iraq was justified. Saddam did not honor the cease fire agreement that he signed (by proxy) and refused to adhere to the UN mandates. That alone was enough to support the US and it's partners undertaking the invasion.
By the same token I did not support us going any further in the first Iraq war than we did. The stated objective of the coalition was to remove Saddam from Kuwait. Once that was done we needed to stop and we did. It may have been a bad choice to begin with but that was the agreement and the extent of the UN resolutions at that time.
The "indoctrination" comment is a mite tongue in cheek I'd bet. Be careful about being led by anyone. As Barbara said get lots of opinions and then weigh and decide for yourself. You do need to understand that a good portion of this board's membership is based in the south and tend to be on the conservative side
By the same token I did not support us going any further in the first Iraq war than we did. The stated objective of the coalition was to remove Saddam from Kuwait. Once that was done we needed to stop and we did. It may have been a bad choice to begin with but that was the agreement and the extent of the UN resolutions at that time.
The "indoctrination" comment is a mite tongue in cheek I'd bet. Be careful about being led by anyone. As Barbara said get lots of opinions and then weigh and decide for yourself. You do need to understand that a good portion of this board's membership is based in the south and tend to be on the conservative side
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