America's Education System...what is wrong with it?

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timNms
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America's Education System...what is wrong with it?

#1 Postby timNms » Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:59 pm

As most of you know, I was a teacher until this past Dec., when I resigned due to health reasons.
I could write a book about the things I've seen and experienced during my years in the classroom. But I won't :)
What this topic is about is what do you think is wrong with our system of education. Does the public think it is the teachers' fault or is it something else?
Kids today have a great variety of resources in the classroom. From computers, internet access, to "new and improved" texts, kids today should be much more advanced academically than the kids of my day were. But that just doesn't seem to be the case.
Way back in the late 60's when I started to school, we had no idea what kindergarten was. I started out in 1st grade. The teacher had no help and had about 30 kids. She took on the challenge of teaching kids who had no idea what the letter A was and taught us to read, write, and work math. "See Spot run!" "Spot can run." "Spot can run fast." Remember that old reading series? I loved it. Wonder if we should go back to using that? It worked for us. During the time I was in school...from elem. thru high school, we didn't have the problems that teachers face today. Out of that 30 kids in my first grade class, we had ONE to fail.
What has happened over the years? Any ideas? One theory I have is the failure of the family.
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Miss Mary

#2 Postby Miss Mary » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:14 am

Tim - good topic. I have some input, coming from a parent's point of view. What's happened over the years?

1. Parents are too busy to get involved in their kids academic needs. They're either running themselves ragged working overtime or carting the kids around to all those activities that their kids 'have' to sign up for. Or they just simply don't care, they're too strung out on drugs or alcohol. Their kids are just not a priority.

2. Kindergarten seems to be First Grade to me. And on up. Wait I need to back up. Go to #3:

3. Over 50% of kids starting K are now 6, not 5, as when I was a kid.

Back to #2. Because kids are older starting K, teachers are teaching to those older, more mature kids. Kids of traditional age lag behind, IMO. I have 2 daughters, both were 5 and 2 or 3 months when they started K. Nina has done fine. Laura has always struggled. I really wish she would have had a third year of pre-school. But the pre-school teachers told me she was ready for K. Later I realized she wasn't ready. The K teacher told me not to worry if she wasn't reading yet, she'd catch on. Well, she didn't really catch on until the 7th Grade! Yes, that's when she really began to like reading. Laura has been in every reading recovery program her school offered. She took summer classes but just barely passed each year. She'd throw her report down on the floor and say - I'm just a C kid. Luckily we had the same teacher again for 6th Grade that she had in 3rd and she pulled me aside 2 weeks into the school year. She strongly suggested testing to rule out LD/Dyslexia/ADD. Well, turns out Laura has a mild form of ADD and tends to daydream a lot. She needs extended time for tests. With a 501 plan in place (a step down from an IEP in our district), she qualified for extra help. She took time released Ritalin for a few years but hated the way it made her feel. Her grades shot up, all A's, maybe a lone B, but she just felt different. She didn't feel like herself. She took it once in the car for a family funeral/trip to Chicago to do homework. A few hours later I knew what she meant - this wasn't my daughter. So this year she's trying just a 4 hour Ritalin pill and takes it just before her core subjects start. Her grades have slipped, but she's not failing. So in a wordy way, she needed another year of pre-school before K, IMO. It would have been a 4 day/3 hours a day class. A pre-K class. I wouldn't hold her back now though, she's in 8th Grade. It's too late I think. So many kids are gifted at her school and a big emphasis is put upon grades. That's all you hear about - Straight A's. Parents have those bumper stickers - Proud Parent of an Honor Roll Student. I really think teachers are teaching to those smart kids, sometimes. Where did K go, I want to know. And oh the K teacher was dead wrong, if Laura had been reading at least 50 sight words then, she wouldn't have struggled as much as she did. The reason we didn't test her until 6th Grade was b/c her dad and I argued so much about meds. He just didn't want to drug her to just get A's. I agreed but thought we should at least try it. For a few years there we fought over it. But it was when that 6th Grade teacher, bless her heart, took me aside I knew it was time. Even Laura knew it was time. Let's find out what's wrong here.

I remember volunteering one day in her first grade class. I was asked to have students read to me, one on one. One girl chose a third grade level book. She breezed right thru it. Later I commented to the teacher that she must be gifted. Laura was struggling with K level books then. The teacher sighed and said - no, she's just a year older than your daughter. That's when I really began to notice how many kids were a full year older, and must have started K at age 6.

Our school district used to teach the Whole Language Theory. They also encouraged Inventive Spelling - printing a word as it sounds just to get kids writing. By third grade they were expected to learn the correct way to spell words. Nina did fine but I curse the day Laura was allowed to print words as they sounded. She's terrible at spelling. Thankfully I hear inventive spelling is no longer implemented in our district. And they've gone back to phonics. I'm not saying Laura should have learned reading and writing the way I was - by a strict nun with a ruler who wasn't afraid to use it on you - but the way she was taught was just too loose for her needs. She needed structure and phonics. Now she's getting it, the whole district adopted it, but try turning that Whole Language Theory this late in the game! It's not easy.

Well, those are my opinions. I do think there are wonderfully supportive parents out there. I'm sure some teachers look at us and wish we'd do more. Laura wants help and she likes to pull me into that web - here help me Mom. So her dad is in charge of overseeing her homework. He has so much more patience for that - me? Laura and I tend to argue and me doing her homework isn't the answer.

I'm sure there's more I can post but those are my main points.

Mary
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#3 Postby timNms » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:49 am

Mary, I like your opinions :) And I'm with you 100% on that inventive spelling crap! Teach them the right way to start with and they'll know it from then on. Teach them the wrong way and later on, someone has to "unteach" that! It's a PAIN in the bottom too!
Parents....what in the world is wrong with them? I love my kids dearly. I want them to participate in sports and the things that they enjoy. However, both of them know that their academics come FIRST. Beginning tomorrow, kids in our area can begin signing up for little league baseball. My son loves it and we're planning to sign him up again this year. BUT, he was told tonight that if his grades fall, his baseball career is over! :)
Hang in there with your daughter. Keep encouraging her. Sounds to me like she's very intelligent. I bet she's a joy to work with in class.
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#4 Postby Guest » Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:39 am

My opinion in this with my stepdaugther in second grade is that today's society has gotten away from the family and its all about making money, profits - or heavens forbid greedy in today's workplace - heveans forbid is you should put your family first and leave after only 8 hours at work. Everyone has to work longhours to keep their jobs and to get to that American dream - what is it now days?? I myself included in this category - who suffers - my child becuause I come home tired, exhausted, stressed out and then I have to sit down with my daughter and try to help her with her homework. My stepdaugher was enrolled in Pre-K - which was for 4-5 year olds - but her mother wasn't a good parent - didn't help her with her homework - when we got custody of her two years ago we made the difficult decision to hold her back in kindegarten another year. I don't blame the teachers at all - the system and parents expect them to be super humans. In my opinion society has to get back to the FAMILY and emphasis put on having parents at home to help educate the child and further his or her education.

Sorry for the rambling.

Patricia
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Miss Mary

#5 Postby Miss Mary » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:49 am

timNms wrote:Mary, I like your opinions :) And I'm with you 100% on that inventive spelling crap! Teach them the right way to start with and they'll know it from then on. Teach them the wrong way and later on, someone has to "unteach" that! It's a PAIN in the bottom too!
Parents....what in the world is wrong with them? I love my kids dearly. I want them to participate in sports and the things that they enjoy. However, both of them know that their academics come FIRST. Beginning tomorrow, kids in our area can begin signing up for little league baseball. My son loves it and we're planning to sign him up again this year. BUT, he was told tonight that if his grades fall, his baseball career is over! :)
Hang in there with your daughter. Keep encouraging her. Sounds to me like she's very intelligent. I bet she's a joy to work with in class.


Tim - yes that inventive spelling is a pain! I remember sitting at a parent meeting early on when Nina started K. Thinking, huh, what's this? They can print words as they sound? But each subject flowed into another and the whole language theory was implemented. Nina loves to read and write, and wants to major in Journalism in college. So it didn't hurt her at all. Laura is another story. I should mention that their elem school was a wonderful setting. Almost like Montesorri, it was a school built in the 70s, it was open, no walls. Team teaching, etc. You could see into every classroom and when that whole Catholic/Priest abuse story broke, I was so happy they went to a school like that. There was no where for abuse to start. If one teacher was out of line, 5 other teachers would have heard it. But more than that, most teachers in this school and our district have their master's or are strongly encouraged to get their master degree's. Just didn't want you to think they went to some wacky school. The reason the 6th grade teacher pushed testing then was to find out before Laura left that nurturing environment that she had grown up in since K. So each teacher/counselor she met with, she knew already. That was smart advice looking back. I'll always be grateful she suggested testing.

Patricia - you will never be sorry you had your stepdaughter repeat K. Never! That was a wise decision, IMHO. Keep working with her and try your level best to say no to overtime. I've heard that's a real problem in the working world. A good friend of mine has 6 children. Her husband was working towards partner in his accounting firm. Working 70+ hours a week. By this time they had 3 or 4 kids by then. The two of them sat down and talked his career over. She was a stay-at-home mom (former teacher). They agreed he would apply for manager and skip going for partner. He must make a great salary because they seem to be doing fine. And went on to have more kids! They took their small living room and walled it off, put in two glass french doors leading into. It became his home office. Instead of working long hours there, he comes home at a reasonable hour. I do think he stays up very late catching up, but between 6 and 9 or 10, he's available for homework help and chauffering the kids around. I applaud their decision. He told us the pressure was off him as soon as he announced he wasn't going for partner.

So much for not wanting to ramble this time. Oops, sorry.

Mary
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#6 Postby blizzard » Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:01 am

One thing I can't stand is the "No child left behind" theory. That is just an excuse to not have to work with the students harder. And it also holds the other students back. When I was in school, if a student was struggling, they got extra help. That seemed to allow for every student to get what they needed. The students that picked up on the curriculum right away, didn't have to suffer through repeating the lesson over and over, and the student that needed the help received the help he/she needed. These students are being taught that they will be coddled throughout their life. When they get to teh real world, they are shocked that someone else isn't going to do eveything for them.

Just My Opinion, but I think that theory is a big reason out education today is in the crapper.


With all that said, I also agree that parents need to take a more active role in their children's educations.
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#7 Postby furluvcats » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:41 pm

I wholeheartedly agree that it's a 50/50 partnership, teacher and parents working together to make sure our children succeed. And I believe that the typical American family consists of over worked parents, cramming too many extra activities into their children's lives. It's always been education first in my home. If and when you've fully succeeded with your academics, then there will be time for outside activities.

The flip side of holding children back, more than 1 year, is that there are many negatives a child may experience.

For example, my son was held back in K, which he needed, and then again in 4, which I argued strongly against. He has been homeschooled now through 1/2 of his second year of 4th, and all of 5th, the grade he's in now.

Louisiana has its own form of segregation in its public schools. Children have to apply almost a year in advance and go through months of tests, and meetings, etc. to qualify for acceptance into a Magnet school. These are the ONLY schools in town with fair demiographics. These are the the schools with low crime. These are the schools that get alot of outside funding. These are are ONLY schools with acceptable test scores. (2 or 3 local schools were not even allowed to open this year, because the test scores, and the teacher scores were so LOW. Have you ever heard of that?) So, to qualify for these few spots in the Magnet schools, your child has to take the CAT test, score over 50% in the nation on all tests, then the scores from these tests are combined, and scored again. The top, scores, get offered the spots. There are many other prerequisites also, I am not including. So, basically, if your child is not in the A honor roll group, he/she will not get in. Teachers children get the first available spots.

Anyway, the other children who did not get accepted get sent to the "throwaway" schools. The schools with high crime, low test scores, etc. Louisiana is a weird bird when it comes to alot of things, our educational system being worst then all but Mississippi I believe. Anyway, I can't send my children to a school other than the Magnet we've applied to. It wouldn't be fair or beneficial.

Anyway, back on subject with the pitfall of my son being held back 2 grades, is that he is taking the tests at the magnet school, and he is a giant among small children. He's almost 6 ft tall, size 10 shoe, feelings and emotions and looks of a high school student. He can't relate to the kids whom he would share classes with. As it stands, he'll be 20 years old when he graduates, with his class consisiting mostly of 17 and 18 year olds. His self esteem is wounded, he feels like a failure, and a big oaf.

My kids were moved to different towns in different states way too often. My first husband I kept moving as our company grew. Moved closer to our work, and up the ladder into bigger houses, in more exclusive neighborhoods. We didn't take the kids into consideration. They started new schools so often, in different states, that they missed alot of what they needed, bc different school districts in different states were on different levels of teaching, etc. This I do not blame on schools, or teachers, but on us for doing this too them. It hurt my son tremendously.

When I remarried and we settled permantly in Bossier City, LA. the kids were finally in classes for full terms. But here is where I ran into problems. My son could not read. We met with his teacher at least once a week about his poor reading skills, etc, begging for the answer to what could we do as his parents to help him succeed. Unfortunatly, we got a bad teacher that year...she had too many students, and she lacked the desire to do anything extra to help a child. She refused to work with kids on their individual levels. We asked that our son be allowed extra reading assignments. Her words exactly to us were " I don't have to teach him to read. He should have known how to read when he got to my class". A teacher told me she would not help my child learn to read! We fought this, went to the principal, etc...our principal was really just a protector of her teachers, she said her teacher never said that, etc...we really did have a rotten teacher that year. No bones about it. Thats the year of the "infamous" LEAP test. If your kid doesn't pass it, then he stays in 4th grade. My son passed the LEAP test! We were sooo proud of him! But they retained him again anyway, WHY? Because he had a low grade in Reading...no duh, thats why we met with the teacher all year long, and asked for extra help for him. We worked with him at home, but in class he was lost. You have to read to understand every subject.

This is getting long winded, as education is my favorite subject, but I'll try to wrap things up here. We bought a house in Shreveport End of Dec 2002. Tried to keep the kids in the school they were at in Bossier, but its a diifferent district, and they could not stay, even tho more than half the year was over. We didn't KNOW about Magnet schools in Shreveport, had not applied and you can't attend halfway through the year anyway, so that option was not open to us. The poorest school in the area was open to us though. Their test scores do not even rank. Heard nothing really good about the local private schools either, which are in great number here, with high amounts of children enrolled, and they can charge an arm and leg more then when I was in private school, because the demand is so high. Demiographics, here again. We chose to homeschool. And what a blessing its been for me and my children. They are taught on individualized ciriculum to meet each childs needs. My son reads fluently with CONFIDENCE. His grades are AB honor roll now, and as I stated in a different post, he has just taken a test to see if he qualifys to skip 6th grade next year and make up a grade he is behind in.

It takes compassion and hard work, from both teachers and parents to see that our children are well educated and a success. There are many choices out there, and sometimes what seems the strangest alternative ends up being exactly what your child needs. Not only have I seen my children grow and excell with homeschooling, but I myself have grown as a parent and person through the process.
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#8 Postby Lindaloo » Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:01 pm

Hate to tell you furry, but MS is ranked high in education Nationally. Ocean Springs MS is the top ranking school district Nationally and in this state. Maybe I misinterpreted your post about the MS education?


I hate those type Principals too. All they care about is protecting the teachers and letting certain students get away with everything. I rallied a bunch of parents against a Principal at our local Middle School She did not have the ability to run that school nor keep it under control. She pitted white kids against the black kids by overlooking anything a black child did and would severely punish a white kid. When we got through with the school board that Principal was forced to retire instead of being fired.
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#9 Postby furluvcats » Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:32 pm

Linda, in a recently published study on AOL, it ranked MS. as worst of the 50 states, followed by Louisiana as second worst, and Florida fell in at 7th worst. I know there are excellent districts in all states, but overall state per state, that is how it was rated. The school I am trying to get the kids into next year is rated #1 middle school in the whole state of Louisiana, and may be considered one of the best overall, but the rest of the schools performance in Louisiana ranks us as poor to not acceptable. I'm not picking on your state, just stating the results of the study that I read. The purpose of my post was to state that I believe teachers, administration and parents all need to be held accountable for seeing that our children are well educated and we need to do whatever it takes to see this happen.
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