Should the Vets be allowed to Jump?!

[JQ Public]

Elderly WWII vets denied parachute into Normandy
Saturday,

May 8, 2004 Posted: 6:57 PM EDT (2257 GMT)

CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- A group of World War II veterans won't get to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Allied invasion of France next month the way they wanted -- the Army decided they're too old to safely parachute into Normandy.

"I am depressed. I was really looking forward to it," said Howard Greenberg, 79. "My reason for wanting to do it was to honor two Jewish friends of mine who were killed in World War II."

"I resent being told I'm not physically fit. I only weigh 11 pounds more than I did the day I was discharged," he said.

Greenberg, a retired optometrist in suburban Bay Village, served with the 11th Airborne in the Pacific during the war and jumped into Normandy in 1994 on the 50th anniversary of D-Day.

That time, President Clinton gave the ultimate approval that allowed 38 veterans to jump near Ste.-Mere-Eglise, the D-Day objective of the 82nd Airborne Division.

Some of them landed on a herd of French cows.

Bob McCaffery, co-chairman of the veteran parachutists' group, said he was notified of the Army's decision on Thursday.

"The Army realized that these guys have trained and they are the exception among average 80-year-olds," said McCaffery, of Las Vegas, Nev. "But they said the risk of an injury happening at a ceremony of this magnitude was just too great."

McCaffery had hoped President Bush would intercede this time, in part because the first President Bush parachuted when he was 75.

Greenberg said he was aware of the danger.

In 1995, he was one of six WWII paratroopers who went to Russia for an airborne tribute. His jump was canceled after the man who jumped before him was killed when his parachute failed to open.

In 2000, while performing a tribute near Fort Bragg, North Carolina, another member of Greenberg's group was killed when his parachute did not open properly.

"My wife was not crazy about me jumping again," Greenberg said.

Aw I think thats a shame. They should be able to jump one more time. I mean Former President Bush Senior is still skydiving from planes and he is the same age or older than many of these men. Hopefully they'll reconsider after the publicity?!

[streetsoldier]

High-altitude, low-opening (HALO) jumps are ONE thing...these guys would probably want to jump as they did during D-Day, from C-47s at 500-2000 feet or less. (My Dad was one of those C-47 pilots; even back then, losses from injuries, with FIT young men, was 20-25%.)

Octogenarians (80+ years old) usually have bone-density loss, their muscle tone will not be the same as those 17-20 year old AB troops had 60 years ago, and for these reasons, I concur with the decision. I'm certain my Dad would have, had he lived.

[coriolis]

500 feet. That's not much margin for error.
Are there any C-47's still flying? I've seen a B-17, a B-24, a B-25, and a P-51 actualy flying.

[streetsoldier]

At 500 feet, the WW II paratroops had "static lines" hooked up to a wire (running the length of the fuselage) that opened the parachutes almost as soon as they jumped; the height was due to a concept called "contour flying", in which troop-carrier pilots were taught to "hug the ground" and follow its contours at a consistent level.

This was done to minimize ground fire, as well as being jumped by German fighters...remember, the troop-carrier "gaggles" usually had NO fighter cover at all, and D-Day was no exception. C-47s also had no guns on board, save those small arms issued to the crews (Thompsons, M-1 carbines and M-1911 .45 "slab-side" Colt pistols), and no armor (Dad did have a 1/4" steel plate under his seat in the cockpit, if one can call that "armor").

For this reason, according to a USAF general I spoke to about Dad's service, I was told that the "best" pilots were chosen for C-47s...less so, for fighters, and the "worst" were assigned to bombers. His words, not mine.

And yes, there are still C-47/DC-3s still in the air, about 200 of them...it is the longest-serving aircraft ever built.

[Josephine96]

I have no clue what my opinion would be on this...

[streetsoldier]

One other thing; parachutes of today's standards are constructed so well that they are maneuverable to land within a 6-foot circle. Those the WW II paratroopers used were nowhere near as maneuverable, and you pretty much landed where the winds took you (Dad always wondered, up until his death in 1999, if his first 101AB troopers were those that landed in waist-deep mud, to be cut down by German MG nests outside of St. Mere Eglise).

Even if the old men were physically fit enough, substantial re-training would be called for...and there isn't enough time to do that properly.

[coriolis]

Ah....C-47 = DC-3.

Bill, Did your dad tell lots of good stories?

I should sit my father down and get some stories out of him. He served on Saipan in the Pacific. That's about all I know...

[Josephine96]

After thinking about it.. I really do think they should be allowed to jump. It may be their last jump of there life.. Let them enjoy it..

[streetsoldier]

Dad didn't tell all that many stories...actually, he was VERY quiet about his service, until the last 15 years of his life. In 1976, FI, he was given an opportunity to fly a DC-3/C-47 A, in California, which he did with relish...and said it was like "riding a bicycle".

Later, he gave a few retrospective interviews in St. Louis papers; by this time, he was a well-respected icon of the music industry, both as an accordionist/pianist and booking manager.

However, we kids (all 5 of us) learned to sing WW II Army Air Corps ditties while on long vacation trips, in four-part harmony, no less...

The remainder of what I learned about him came from, his service files and training manuals, which I found in poor shape in a large, metal "footlocker" we had in the basement, at about the age of 17; that, and my return from my own AF service, laid the foundation for "man-to-man-discussions between two who'd "been there".

[stormchazer]

They are the "Greatest Generation"! I won't tell them that they can not jump.