Homosexual student expelled from Christian school
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chadtm80
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Toni - 574
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JetMaxx
IMO a lot depends on what the private schools policy was on students being or becoming homosexual (and I admit I have no idea whether one is born gay or one chooses it) --
IF the church owned Christian school had a policy that states something like..."THIS IS A SCHOOL BASED ON THE PRINCIPLES OF THE KING JAMES BIBLE"...."IF A STUDENT IS GAY, BECOMES GAY, OR FAILS TO ACKNOWLEDGE HE/SHE IS GAY AND IT'S LEARNED THEY ARE, THE STUDENT IS IN VIOLATION OF THE POLICY AND NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR ADMISSION" -- then as a private Christian school, they have the right to admit or deny admission to whomever they please.
Believe me, there are plenty of private schools that don't give a flip who their students a dating...just as long as they meet a certain GPA and have money to pay the tuition.
I respect every person on earth to choose or live the sexual lifestyle of their choice in their own home...but the day a federal court can tell a church or church controlled entity...including a Christian school FUNDED by church members WHO they must allow into their church --- freedom of religion in America is DEAD.
Why do I say that? Because once the courts dictate a house of Gods pastor and church leadership can't say who can and cannot be a member; takes that power and freedom from a church pastor, board of deacons, or members of a church -- then all it takes for members deemed as "sinful" to take over a church is for a majority of them to become members....it will destroy that church and any freedom of religion.
Here's a true story from my childhood....June of 1977 when mom was alive and dad was pastoring a small church in Forsyth County, Georgia.....
There was a man who came to church drunk as a dog....his name was Billy, and he was a known wife-beater and troublemaker. His wife and two small children were sitting in the church when this guy barges in DURING the worship service (dad was preaching his sermon). Billy began yelling, cursing, and trying to fight his wife...grabbed her by the hair and dragged her to the floor (she was already badly bruised from a prior beating in their home).
Dad left the pulpit, and along with me and several other men....we restrained this drunk bully and took him outside, while mom called the sheriff.
We were compassionate and wished brother Billy would give up his booze and wife beating and behave himself -- but he refused to do so (instead threatened to kill us all). We were forced to bar him from that church and it's property (with a restraining order). We prayed for him; but couldn't allow him to disrupt a worship service or behave in that dispectful manner in the house of God.
Let's just suppose it's 2003...and brother Billy is bisexual or gay; and when we bar him from the church for misbehaving, he hires a lawyer and sues us for violating his rights to go to church wherever he wishes....sues for civil rights violations -- and a federal judge ORDERS us to allow him in our church services and activities?
A church pastor is the leader of his church and its congegration...and is held accountable by God almighty for maintaining order and decency in that church and everything it possesses (campgrounds, schools, etc).
A church is different than Dairy Queen, Wal-Mart, and AT&T. Church pastors and members try to obey the law of the land at all times; but they also answer to a higher authority (God) --and when in disagreement, we obey God's law first and the courts second. When and if that right to allow or reject folks as members of our church (and other entities it owns)...for any reason the bible condemns, then the church is dead.
I grew up in the Church of God of Prophecy...and have seen quite a few members disfellowshipped (kicked out) as members because they began smoking cigarettes...or they married someone who was divorced with a living companion (called "fornication" in the bible). If you want to be a member of any private church organization, you should be willing to abide by their principles. Neither my father or my oldest sister would be eligible as members of the Church of God of Prophecy at this time....Becky and David have both got living spouses (both are divorced); and dad married a divorcee with a living ex-husband.
I don't personally have a problem with attending church with gay members....but I also believe ALL churches and church organizations have the right to set the standards for its membership. Separation of church and state goes both ways.....and the federal government has ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS telling churches what standards they can and cannot have for membership (and that goes for their church sponsored schools as well).
IF the church owned Christian school had a policy that states something like..."THIS IS A SCHOOL BASED ON THE PRINCIPLES OF THE KING JAMES BIBLE"...."IF A STUDENT IS GAY, BECOMES GAY, OR FAILS TO ACKNOWLEDGE HE/SHE IS GAY AND IT'S LEARNED THEY ARE, THE STUDENT IS IN VIOLATION OF THE POLICY AND NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR ADMISSION" -- then as a private Christian school, they have the right to admit or deny admission to whomever they please.
Believe me, there are plenty of private schools that don't give a flip who their students a dating...just as long as they meet a certain GPA and have money to pay the tuition.
I respect every person on earth to choose or live the sexual lifestyle of their choice in their own home...but the day a federal court can tell a church or church controlled entity...including a Christian school FUNDED by church members WHO they must allow into their church --- freedom of religion in America is DEAD.
Why do I say that? Because once the courts dictate a house of Gods pastor and church leadership can't say who can and cannot be a member; takes that power and freedom from a church pastor, board of deacons, or members of a church -- then all it takes for members deemed as "sinful" to take over a church is for a majority of them to become members....it will destroy that church and any freedom of religion.
Here's a true story from my childhood....June of 1977 when mom was alive and dad was pastoring a small church in Forsyth County, Georgia.....
There was a man who came to church drunk as a dog....his name was Billy, and he was a known wife-beater and troublemaker. His wife and two small children were sitting in the church when this guy barges in DURING the worship service (dad was preaching his sermon). Billy began yelling, cursing, and trying to fight his wife...grabbed her by the hair and dragged her to the floor (she was already badly bruised from a prior beating in their home).
Dad left the pulpit, and along with me and several other men....we restrained this drunk bully and took him outside, while mom called the sheriff.
We were compassionate and wished brother Billy would give up his booze and wife beating and behave himself -- but he refused to do so (instead threatened to kill us all). We were forced to bar him from that church and it's property (with a restraining order). We prayed for him; but couldn't allow him to disrupt a worship service or behave in that dispectful manner in the house of God.
Let's just suppose it's 2003...and brother Billy is bisexual or gay; and when we bar him from the church for misbehaving, he hires a lawyer and sues us for violating his rights to go to church wherever he wishes....sues for civil rights violations -- and a federal judge ORDERS us to allow him in our church services and activities?
A church pastor is the leader of his church and its congegration...and is held accountable by God almighty for maintaining order and decency in that church and everything it possesses (campgrounds, schools, etc).
A church is different than Dairy Queen, Wal-Mart, and AT&T. Church pastors and members try to obey the law of the land at all times; but they also answer to a higher authority (God) --and when in disagreement, we obey God's law first and the courts second. When and if that right to allow or reject folks as members of our church (and other entities it owns)...for any reason the bible condemns, then the church is dead.
I grew up in the Church of God of Prophecy...and have seen quite a few members disfellowshipped (kicked out) as members because they began smoking cigarettes...or they married someone who was divorced with a living companion (called "fornication" in the bible). If you want to be a member of any private church organization, you should be willing to abide by their principles. Neither my father or my oldest sister would be eligible as members of the Church of God of Prophecy at this time....Becky and David have both got living spouses (both are divorced); and dad married a divorcee with a living ex-husband.
I don't personally have a problem with attending church with gay members....but I also believe ALL churches and church organizations have the right to set the standards for its membership. Separation of church and state goes both ways.....and the federal government has ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS telling churches what standards they can and cannot have for membership (and that goes for their church sponsored schools as well).
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ColdFront77
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GalvestonDuck
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Here's the "born gay" post link:
http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic ... hlight=gay
If sexuality is a choice, then I ask you, Marshall and Derek, when did you choose to be straight?
Yes, I agree, some people choose to engage in sexual acts that are not their actual orientation, for reasons of curiosity (bisexual people?), control (prisoners of war or of the penal system), or who knows what else.
But when it all boils down to falling in love, living in a committed relationship, and, yes, having intimate relations, it's not a choice. It's an innate desire to be with someone that you feel comfortable with, trust, and love.
The Bible clearly preaches against homosexual lust as it does against heterosexual lust. I don't like what George Michael did anymore than the next person. And I don't like what Amy Fisher and Joey Buttafucco did either. Lust is a sin. There's no question about that. But the Bible does not say that committed same sex relations are a sin. David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel 18-20? Ruth and Naomi in Ruth 1?
The word "homosexual" never appeared in the earliest translations of the Bible. Translations of "male prostitution" and "idol worship" were later changed to "homosexual." That's like changing "Thou shalt not kill"
to "Thou shalt stop CPR." Blurred lines and faltered Hebrew. Doesn't the last book of Revelations warn against taking away or adding to the Word of God?
Jesus never mentions homosexuality at all.
When I was in high school and finally coming to terms with my life, I prayed about what I was feeling inside. God answers prayers, but not always in the ways we think are "answers." I despised hearing all the hatred that some people voiced against gays. It made me not want to be gay. I didn't want to be hated. I tried to "choose." But when I prayed about it, God gave me peace in my heart. He didn't make me straight. He made me love me. My life isn't perfect now, but it's blessed compared to how it used to be. And it's because I gave my life and heart to God so He could show me His plan for my life. No, I didn't choose to be gay...God chose this plan for me.
"All I ever have to be is what You've made me
Any more or less would be a step out of Your plan
As You daily recreate me, help me always keep in mind
That I only have to do what I can find
And all I ever have to be is what you, Dear Lord, have made me." ~ Amy Grant
No one is perfect, except God. No one is without sin, except God. If someone wants to believe that my life is a sin, I feel sorry for them. They need to look at their own life and not worry about mine. If an all-out worldwide disaster happened tomorrow, I'm at peace. I pray they are, too.
(Edited to change "Thou shalt not stop CPR" to "Thou shalt stop CPR." Duh! )
http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic ... hlight=gay
If sexuality is a choice, then I ask you, Marshall and Derek, when did you choose to be straight?
Yes, I agree, some people choose to engage in sexual acts that are not their actual orientation, for reasons of curiosity (bisexual people?), control (prisoners of war or of the penal system), or who knows what else.
But when it all boils down to falling in love, living in a committed relationship, and, yes, having intimate relations, it's not a choice. It's an innate desire to be with someone that you feel comfortable with, trust, and love.
The Bible clearly preaches against homosexual lust as it does against heterosexual lust. I don't like what George Michael did anymore than the next person. And I don't like what Amy Fisher and Joey Buttafucco did either. Lust is a sin. There's no question about that. But the Bible does not say that committed same sex relations are a sin. David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel 18-20? Ruth and Naomi in Ruth 1?
The word "homosexual" never appeared in the earliest translations of the Bible. Translations of "male prostitution" and "idol worship" were later changed to "homosexual." That's like changing "Thou shalt not kill"
to "Thou shalt stop CPR." Blurred lines and faltered Hebrew. Doesn't the last book of Revelations warn against taking away or adding to the Word of God?
Jesus never mentions homosexuality at all.
When I was in high school and finally coming to terms with my life, I prayed about what I was feeling inside. God answers prayers, but not always in the ways we think are "answers." I despised hearing all the hatred that some people voiced against gays. It made me not want to be gay. I didn't want to be hated. I tried to "choose." But when I prayed about it, God gave me peace in my heart. He didn't make me straight. He made me love me. My life isn't perfect now, but it's blessed compared to how it used to be. And it's because I gave my life and heart to God so He could show me His plan for my life. No, I didn't choose to be gay...God chose this plan for me.
"All I ever have to be is what You've made me
Any more or less would be a step out of Your plan
As You daily recreate me, help me always keep in mind
That I only have to do what I can find
And all I ever have to be is what you, Dear Lord, have made me." ~ Amy Grant
No one is perfect, except God. No one is without sin, except God. If someone wants to believe that my life is a sin, I feel sorry for them. They need to look at their own life and not worry about mine. If an all-out worldwide disaster happened tomorrow, I'm at peace. I pray they are, too.
(Edited to change "Thou shalt not stop CPR" to "Thou shalt stop CPR." Duh! )
Last edited by GalvestonDuck on Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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i am a private brat and they all have rules. mostly went to boarding schools. if the rules were written out u have to abide by them. i havent read the article, so i will just say, hes a senior ?? well i feel for him. that is a hard year to get kicked out. 2 of my best friends in highschool (they did not go to school with me) they were gay ( 2 guys) they did my makeup when i would go out and gosh i could tell them anything, they were great to me. this was in miami. we should all give all a chance. i love ppl and yes a gift of gab. as i say we all put r pants on the same way! if we meet someone and we like them, what difference does it make about there sexual prefence (sp)
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JetMaxx
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Toni - 574
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mf_dolphin
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GalvestonDuck wrote:If sexuality is a choice, then I ask you, Marshall and Derek, when did you choose to be straight?
My mother used to tease me by saying "All boys go through a stage where they don't like girls....except you!"
I've never been confused about my own sexual identity. I can't say the same for one of my siblings who has been in several committed relationships both straight and gay. Do I love her any less? Of course not! Do I agree that a gay lifestyle is the biblically right thing? No. Will I bash someone for their sexual preference, NO! People make all kinds of choices that they will have to answer to their maker for at the end thier life. After all, the bible says we are all sinners! I accept people for who they are and how they treat others. I'll let God take care of the judgements otherwise...
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chadtm80
My mother used to tease me by saying "All boys go through a stage where they don't like girls....except you!" I've never been confused about my own sexual identity. I can't say the same for one of my siblings who has been in several committed relationships both straight and gay. Do I love her any less? Of course not! Do I agree that a gay lifestyle is the biblically right thing? No. Will I bash someone for their sexual preference, NO! People make all kinds of choices that they will have to answer to their maker for at the end thier life. After all, the bible says we are all sinners! I accept people for who they are and how they treat others. I'll let God take care of the judgements otherwise...
Marshall is back
Like always, I couldnt agree with you more dolphin..
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Toni - 574
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chadtm80 wrote:My mother used to tease me by saying "All boys go through a stage where they don't like girls....except you!" I've never been confused about my own sexual identity. I can't say the same for one of my siblings who has been in several committed relationships both straight and gay. Do I love her any less? Of course not! Do I agree that a gay lifestyle is the biblically right thing? No. Will I bash someone for their sexual preference, NO! People make all kinds of choices that they will have to answer to their maker for at the end thier life. After all, the bible says we are all sinners! I accept people for who they are and how they treat others. I'll let God take care of the judgements otherwise...
Marshall is back
Couldn't have said it better, only thing different I like guys and most likely LOL always will...
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He's in violation of school rules, no different than if he was to bring a weapon to school.
However....I do sympathize with the poor lad in the respect that he might have only recently "discovered" his homosexuality, and unfortunately for himself, was now, not in a homosexually favorable environment (not that one really exists that I know of, save the gay clubs).
You have to ask yourself, what was it that led this teacher to question this student as to his sexual orientation? My guess is that his actions must have been speaking for themselves. Just as a young heterosexual male cannot hide the fact that an attraction to the female gender exists, I would imagine (and this is all I can truly do), that the same would be true for a homosexual, especially in the adolescence stage of raging hormones.
Bottom line is...this is a private Christain school, with rules. If said student "knew" he was gay before being enrolled, and assuming his parents "knew", then somebody made a big mistake here.
Unfortunately for the poor boy, unless he can find him a school that has an open door policy favorable to homosexuality, he is in for a tough road in life.
However....I do sympathize with the poor lad in the respect that he might have only recently "discovered" his homosexuality, and unfortunately for himself, was now, not in a homosexually favorable environment (not that one really exists that I know of, save the gay clubs).
You have to ask yourself, what was it that led this teacher to question this student as to his sexual orientation? My guess is that his actions must have been speaking for themselves. Just as a young heterosexual male cannot hide the fact that an attraction to the female gender exists, I would imagine (and this is all I can truly do), that the same would be true for a homosexual, especially in the adolescence stage of raging hormones.
Bottom line is...this is a private Christain school, with rules. If said student "knew" he was gay before being enrolled, and assuming his parents "knew", then somebody made a big mistake here.
Unfortunately for the poor boy, unless he can find him a school that has an open door policy favorable to homosexuality, he is in for a tough road in life.
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TexasStooge
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Toni - 574 wrote:chadtm80 wrote:My mother used to tease me by saying "All boys go through a stage where they don't like girls....except you!" I've never been confused about my own sexual identity. I can't say the same for one of my siblings who has been in several committed relationships both straight and gay. Do I love her any less? Of course not! Do I agree that a gay lifestyle is the biblically right thing? No. Will I bash someone for their sexual preference, NO! People make all kinds of choices that they will have to answer to their maker for at the end thier life. After all, the bible says we are all sinners! I accept people for who they are and how they treat others. I'll let God take care of the judgements otherwise...
Marshall is back
Couldn't have said it better, only thing different I like guys and most likely LOL always will...
I agree with all you have said MF, you hit the nail on the head! Ummm Toni... put me down for the guy list too
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GalvestonDuck
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... pellinghim
Finally had a chance to find that article.
So, was he breaking school rules or not? If there's not rule about it, then they were discriminating against him.
Finally had a chance to find that article.
Woodard's attorney, Trente Steele, admits that the school has the right to discriminate. "What's troubling us is the way in which they discriminate," he said. "The school bylaws don't spell out a policy on gay students."
So, was he breaking school rules or not? If there's not rule about it, then they were discriminating against him.
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stormchazer
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GalvestonDuck wrote:http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/po/20031022/co_po/gaystudentsuesschoolforexpellinghim
Finally had a chance to find that article.Woodard's attorney, Trente Steele, admits that the school has the right to discriminate. "What's troubling us is the way in which they discriminate," he said. "The school bylaws don't spell out a policy on gay students."
So, was he breaking school rules or not? If there's not rule about it, then they were discriminating against him.
I may be wrong about this but this was a private school right? They have a right to set what they consider moral grounds for attending there school as long as it is consistent. You paying the tuition is an agreement by you about the guidelines. They may be idiots but I think they are legal.
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GalvestonDuck
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GalvestonDuck wrote:http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/po/20031022/co_po/gaystudentsuesschoolforexpellinghim
"The school bylaws don't spell out a policy on gay students."
stormchazer wrote: I may be wrong about this but this was a private school right? They have a right to set what they consider moral grounds for attending there school as long as it is consistent. You paying the tuition is an agreement by you about the guidelines. They may be idiots but I think they are legal.
Consistency is the key. The article states that there was no policy. If the article is wrong and there was, they have a case. If they changed the rules in mid-season, it's going to be tough to decide. I agree that a private entity should have the right to set its own standards. Some country clubs don't allow blacks. Some private schools don't allow gays. Gay schools don't allow straights. Airlines don't allow terrorists. Cults don't allow free-thinkers. Abortion clinics don't allow babies.
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Although I'm not a supporter of "Gay Rights", I would agree that if it's not in the school policy, then it is discrimination, Christain school or not.
Again...this HAS to be a case of discovered homosexuality, otherwise it was just plain stupid on his, or his parents part (or both), to enroll in a Christain school.
I believe ANY private organization has the right to exclude whoever they so choose, as long as they have a written policy to back that up.
Again...this HAS to be a case of discovered homosexuality, otherwise it was just plain stupid on his, or his parents part (or both), to enroll in a Christain school.
I believe ANY private organization has the right to exclude whoever they so choose, as long as they have a written policy to back that up.
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stormchazer
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GalvestonDuck wrote:GalvestonDuck wrote:http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/po/20031022/co_po/gaystudentsuesschoolforexpellinghim
"The school bylaws don't spell out a policy on gay students."stormchazer wrote: I may be wrong about this but this was a private school right? They have a right to set what they consider moral grounds for attending there school as long as it is consistent. You paying the tuition is an agreement by you about the guidelines. They may be idiots but I think they are legal.
Consistency is the key. The article states that there was no policy. If the article is wrong and there was, they have a case. If they changed the rules in mid-season, it's going to be tough to decide. I agree that a private entity should have the right to set its own standards. Some country clubs don't allow blacks. Some private schools don't allow gays. Gay schools don't allow straights. Airlines don't allow terrorists. Cults don't allow free-thinkers. Abortion clinics don't allow babies.
I understood that they had guidelines for moral behavior. I could be wrong. You mean a terrorist can't fly on an airplane?
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The posts or stuff said are NOT an official forecast and my opinion alone. Please look to the NHC and NWS for official forecasts and products.
Model Runs Cheat Sheet:
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HWRF, GFDL, UKMET, NAVGEM (6:30-8:00 AM/PM, 12:30-2:00 AM/PM)
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Opinions my own.
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TCVN is a weighted averaged
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