Sierra Vista is about 180 miles SE of Phoenix so we are closer than 400 miles. Plume dispersal forecasting is complicated as there's a bit more involved than just wind in the lower levels. There's also low level stability to take into account. It's been some time since I did plume diffusion and transport work but I still have my manuals. We did a lot of this in our monthly exercises at Dugway UT where we faced the possibility of a Chemical or Biological accident on a daily basis (the Chem Lab was across the street from our office)-and yes, I could get my gas mask on in 9 seconds and had the atropine injector kit close by as well.
Steve
Palo Verde Nuclear Plant
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Actually, as the Aardvark Flies
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Where do I begin?
Let me begin by saying that I truly appreciate the concern expressed by David in Houston and others.Very kind.
I suppose...with all due respect,either there was a of misreading of my text,w/regard to some aforementioned comments by our Phx neighbor.Or I did not make myself clear.
I assume it is the latter.
Therefore:and to clarify
Rad plumes do not follow McNally Road Maps,Interstates,Hwys or Dirt Trails.Its airborn.Dispersal is tricky.As Kahuna mentioned,much more is involved than wind patterns.I did,therefore make mention of Low Level instabilty/stabilty per the AVN and the 'Boxing Effect'.Moisture has a role as well,time of day(ie:Nocturnal Radiational Cooling),etc.
Moreover,no mention of a 'Mushroom Cloud' or the direct comparison to an n-blast was intended.I spoke of RAD intensity,which is accurate.
However,the blast,or several blasts would/could be exacerbated by the nature of the the ordinance or fuels introduced.ie:C-4 Plastique+Jet-A+the 'Nature' of a Nuke PP Fuel Rods exposed=Major Blast.
The assumption that 'just' an aircraft would be involved is simplistic at best.What kind of Aircraft?A single engined Crop Duster or a fully fueled Jumbo Jet(let's say from SkyHarbor theoretically).The latter is mush more indicitive of the 'Air Terrorists'.The biggest 'Bang fo the Buck,as it were.
We saw this on 09-11.Burns hot,disperses on impact,etc.Moreover,IF the PV NPP had been ''targeted' by a cell,it may be safe to assume that a sleeper cell employee(s) could have compromised the security of the Plant
and 'wired' it weeks ago.An 'inside' job,so to speak,C-4 could have been placed within the PP,and set off by any number of triggers,from the Telphone System to a remote control device.Therefore,security now is rendered 'after the fact.Bomb sniffing K-9 Units is one way to discover the
means of the conspiricy.Theoretical?Yes.Does it follow the pattern?Yes.
Furthermore,I did not mention a complete 'Shut Down'.The systems and subsytems can be relagated to small regional 'Grid' power downs and a seamless temporary switch-over to another pwr source is done from time to time.The system is designed to defer automatically if there is a detection of impending failure,or a manual override is an option to be employed in extreme cases.A series of procedures are followed,and substation 'offline/transfer' is available per sector on the Grid.Unfortuanatley,a 767 smashing into the facility is not handled well in the 'Manual'.Nor C-4 placed inside the Facilty,nor may there be anyone with any capabilty to access the system.So a neat and clean procedural response may be optimal,but not available,in part.
Indeed,containment is procedure,however,again,the manuals do not extensively address a Crippled Plant from a outside sources.Assuming that,damage to the facilty is key.Then the book is 're-written' so to speak.
A comparison may be drawn for instance with the United DC-10 that was crippled by a #2 Engine explosion/disabling the Primary and backup surface control/hydraulic systems and the crew forced to improvise ending with the Sioux City,Iowa crash lsome years ago.The 'book' was rewritten afterward for procedure and simulation training.
Also,Evacs are indeed adressed..again,not optimal..however the Authorities understand the Panic that can affect surrounding communities and although not ordered or encouraged,they must prepare for it.
Moreover,hundreds of thousands are evac-ed from Hurricane threatened areas.It can be done..however,a 'Cane 2 days out to sea is much different in the time line.The 'instinct' to escape is there...and was illustrated by Dennis' account of 3 deep gasoline lines.I doubt they were filling up to hoard,rather to leave.Our lines were 4 and 5 deep earlier at some Gas Stations in a flurry of activity.ATMs were emptied as well in localized areas.
Marshall Law is serious.Very serious.Arrests en Masse,Shoot to Kill edicts,etc is a 'Lock Down' of a massive population config.Very difficult to enforce with limited $$$ and manpower.This is a sore spot for Governors and local authorities,as we along with many other States are strapped as it is.The National Guard would be employed in this case along with State/local Law Enforcement.Keep in mind,we are also dealing with Mexico in a logical discussion,which I also addressed.
Coordination efforts would be 'interesting' to say the least.
The issue of preparedness is again,key.Information,good and timely information is essential.I resent somewhat,the fact that Sen. McCain had to 'press' the Energy Secratary for information,and the bind it may have imposed on the Governor's office.Both are somewhat 'displeased'.
Mass Communication is also keyand the means to dissiminate factual and timely instructions.The Government afterall is ultimately repsonsible.
AZ Natl' Guard F-16s..yes.I had 5 fly over earlier,along with several Helos.
I trust this clarifies any percieved misinformation for you.
Have a Nice Day.
I suppose...with all due respect,either there was a of misreading of my text,w/regard to some aforementioned comments by our Phx neighbor.Or I did not make myself clear.
I assume it is the latter.
Therefore:and to clarify
Rad plumes do not follow McNally Road Maps,Interstates,Hwys or Dirt Trails.Its airborn.Dispersal is tricky.As Kahuna mentioned,much more is involved than wind patterns.I did,therefore make mention of Low Level instabilty/stabilty per the AVN and the 'Boxing Effect'.Moisture has a role as well,time of day(ie:Nocturnal Radiational Cooling),etc.
Moreover,no mention of a 'Mushroom Cloud' or the direct comparison to an n-blast was intended.I spoke of RAD intensity,which is accurate.
However,the blast,or several blasts would/could be exacerbated by the nature of the the ordinance or fuels introduced.ie:C-4 Plastique+Jet-A+the 'Nature' of a Nuke PP Fuel Rods exposed=Major Blast.
The assumption that 'just' an aircraft would be involved is simplistic at best.What kind of Aircraft?A single engined Crop Duster or a fully fueled Jumbo Jet(let's say from SkyHarbor theoretically).The latter is mush more indicitive of the 'Air Terrorists'.The biggest 'Bang fo the Buck,as it were.
We saw this on 09-11.Burns hot,disperses on impact,etc.Moreover,IF the PV NPP had been ''targeted' by a cell,it may be safe to assume that a sleeper cell employee(s) could have compromised the security of the Plant
and 'wired' it weeks ago.An 'inside' job,so to speak,C-4 could have been placed within the PP,and set off by any number of triggers,from the Telphone System to a remote control device.Therefore,security now is rendered 'after the fact.Bomb sniffing K-9 Units is one way to discover the
means of the conspiricy.Theoretical?Yes.Does it follow the pattern?Yes.
Furthermore,I did not mention a complete 'Shut Down'.The systems and subsytems can be relagated to small regional 'Grid' power downs and a seamless temporary switch-over to another pwr source is done from time to time.The system is designed to defer automatically if there is a detection of impending failure,or a manual override is an option to be employed in extreme cases.A series of procedures are followed,and substation 'offline/transfer' is available per sector on the Grid.Unfortuanatley,a 767 smashing into the facility is not handled well in the 'Manual'.Nor C-4 placed inside the Facilty,nor may there be anyone with any capabilty to access the system.So a neat and clean procedural response may be optimal,but not available,in part.
Indeed,containment is procedure,however,again,the manuals do not extensively address a Crippled Plant from a outside sources.Assuming that,damage to the facilty is key.Then the book is 're-written' so to speak.
A comparison may be drawn for instance with the United DC-10 that was crippled by a #2 Engine explosion/disabling the Primary and backup surface control/hydraulic systems and the crew forced to improvise ending with the Sioux City,Iowa crash lsome years ago.The 'book' was rewritten afterward for procedure and simulation training.
Also,Evacs are indeed adressed..again,not optimal..however the Authorities understand the Panic that can affect surrounding communities and although not ordered or encouraged,they must prepare for it.
Moreover,hundreds of thousands are evac-ed from Hurricane threatened areas.It can be done..however,a 'Cane 2 days out to sea is much different in the time line.The 'instinct' to escape is there...and was illustrated by Dennis' account of 3 deep gasoline lines.I doubt they were filling up to hoard,rather to leave.Our lines were 4 and 5 deep earlier at some Gas Stations in a flurry of activity.ATMs were emptied as well in localized areas.
Marshall Law is serious.Very serious.Arrests en Masse,Shoot to Kill edicts,etc is a 'Lock Down' of a massive population config.Very difficult to enforce with limited $$$ and manpower.This is a sore spot for Governors and local authorities,as we along with many other States are strapped as it is.The National Guard would be employed in this case along with State/local Law Enforcement.Keep in mind,we are also dealing with Mexico in a logical discussion,which I also addressed.
Coordination efforts would be 'interesting' to say the least.
The issue of preparedness is again,key.Information,good and timely information is essential.I resent somewhat,the fact that Sen. McCain had to 'press' the Energy Secratary for information,and the bind it may have imposed on the Governor's office.Both are somewhat 'displeased'.
Mass Communication is also keyand the means to dissiminate factual and timely instructions.The Government afterall is ultimately repsonsible.
AZ Natl' Guard F-16s..yes.I had 5 fly over earlier,along with several Helos.
I trust this clarifies any percieved misinformation for you.
Have a Nice Day.
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