Abortion/Murder/Choice/Fetus/Human ???

#21 Postby **Stephanie** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:35 pm

That's fine having a legal basis as far as when life begins. As Widreman pointed out - is it viable? Can it survive on it's own without the mother (i.e. breathing).

There are restrictions on when abortions can occur (i.e. trimester) but I believe that they are regulated by the state (I'm not sure about that one).

Linda - I will be interested in knowing how they figured out that the baby died first and why.

ColdFront77 · #22 Postby **ColdFront77** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:40 pm

I strongly believe that a developing system inside a women's body [Laci Peterson] is not one body.

Guest · #23 Postby **Guest** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:16 pm

All i will say in the matter of the fetus,baby, or whatever you want to call it. My answer to most of this matter is in the BIBLE! Thats who we will all answer to in the end..........

Lindaloo · #24 Postby **Lindaloo** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:16 pm

Stephanie wrote:That's fine having a legal basis as far as when life begins. As Widreman pointed out - is it viable? Can it survive on it's own without the mother (i.e. breathing).

There are restrictions on when abortions can occur (i.e. trimester) but I believe that they are regulated by the state (I'm not sure about that one).

Linda - I will be interested in knowing how they figured out that the baby died first and why.

Me too Steph... :wink:

#25 Postby **streetsoldier** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:36 pm

HEY! I was a seven-month "preemie", and I'm sitting right here..."viability", my @$$. :larrow:

CajunMama · #26 Postby **CajunMama** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:44 pm

One murder, two murders IMO it doesn't matter. If he's guilty, I think he ought to rot in jail for life. He's separated from other prisoners already because of threats against him. Let the other prisoners dole out his punishment.

#27 Postby **coriolis** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:52 pm

I'm not going to argue with anyone about this, but I'll weigh in on my opinion: Those NOW people really burn me up. Why do they have to stick their nose into this affair, except to push their political agenda? This is not the time to stir up more controversy and cause more hurt feelings for the families.

#28 Postby **Stephanie** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:04 pm

streetsoldier wrote:HEY! I was a seven-month "preemie", and I'm sitting right here..."viability", my @$$.

You may not remember Bill - but were you in an incubator by chance? Perhaps hooked up to some equipment to help you breath and perhaps feed you? Not too bviable by yourself there...

#29 Postby **coriolis** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:50 pm

The point is that life is precious, and the fact that humans have compassion and will go to great lengths to preserve it, is what sets us apart from animals.

WidreMann · #30 Postby **WidreMann** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:28 pm

The point is that life is precious, and the fact that humans have compassion and will go to great lengths to preserve it, is what sets us apart from animals.

The problem is where you draw the line. Obviously any clump of cells can't count as a separate life form or we would be committing mass murder all the time as our cells are always dying. And we can't count any fetus as a separate being because then we would have to go out of our way to save all of the fetuses that terminate naturally (after all, we consider it our moral obligation to help people in need). And we can't say conception either because there is nothing particularly special about a fertilized egg as a opposed to an egg and sperm separate. If we did that, all men should be rounded up and killed for mass murder since even during normal conception, millions of sperm are wasted, as should all women who don't have a baby with their first ovulation. No, the only one that makes sense is true viability. Now that doesn't mean premature babies don't count, but certainly not first trimester fetuses and perhaps also ones later.

southerngale · #31 Postby **southerngale** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:19 pm

j wrote:...anytime I talk to a pregnant woman and ask questions about her "fetus"...I always refer to it as a baby. Not trying to be a wise *** here, just making a point. I mean can you imagine if you walked up to an expectant mother and said..."when is the due date for that fetus"?

Exactly! Of course he was a baby. Is this seriously even being debated? If you could see the baby that Scott killed, I don't think anyone would have any doubts. That baby was bigger and more developed than a lot of other babies that survive without their mother.

#32 Postby **coriolis** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:07 pm

Duly noted, Widremann. I'm not going to try to change anyone here. A person is either on one side of this issue or the other, and it often turns ugly. We all owe it to each other as a group here to be respectful and considerate (as you were).

southerngale · #33 Postby **southerngale** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 3:53 am

ColdFront77 wrote:I strongly believe that a developing system inside a women's body [Laci Peterson] is not one body.

Well, I don't think that I would call the baby a system but these are undoubtedly two separate bodies. The baby (one body) is growing inside the mother (another body). Is anyone disputing this? :? (just wondering)

It really upsets me to hear Laci's mom so completely torn apart by the loss of her daughter and grandson and then people like the director of N.O.W. want to make horrible statements implying that their grandson's murder doesn't matter because he hadn't been "born" yet. So in a few weeks it would be murder but on that day it wasn't. Puh-leez! That baby had a right to life, just like Laci did. Scott should be held accountable for both deaths. That is one sick and twisted individual...to kill your wife and your own son. It takes a certain evil kind of person to commit such a horrifying act. Whatever his sentence is...it won't be harsh enough.

j · #34 Postby j » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:12 am

Stephanie wrote:
streetsoldier wrote:HEY! I was a seven-month "preemie", and I'm sitting right here..."viability", my @$$.

You may not remember Bill - but were you in an incubator by chance? Perhaps hooked up to some equipment to help you breath and perhaps feed you? Not too bviable by yourself there...

urrrrrrggggghhhh!! geez streetsoldier....they should have just put you in the trash can with the rest of the days aborted babies since you couldn't "survive" without assistance. Stephanie!...listen to what your saying! Let me ask you something. If a member of your family, God forbid, should get in an accident and require either life support or some sort of medical intervention, I would expect you will tell them them that your a woman of principle and if they can't survive on their own, then let them die. Am I wrong???

stormraiser · #35 Postby **stormraiser** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:23 am

I am not speaking for Stephanie, but some would say that's different, because the "born" human had already started to live.

#36 Postby **Stephanie** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 8:29 am

stormraiser wrote:I am not speaking for Stephanie, but some would say that's different, because the "born" human had already started to live.

Exactly Stormraiser - j you totally missed the point. No, I do not think he should've been put in the trash - I resent you even saying that! I'm glad that the technology was and is still here to help him survive being a premmie.

I am arguing for the women's right to make the decision not to carry a child. I support it more when the fetus/baby is not "viable" i.e. early trimester when it cannot function on it's own.

j · #37 Postby j » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:13 am

ok steph (my apolgies for my harshness)....the only argument I have is that Pro-Choicers like yourself want it both ways. You want to be able to decide when that fetus/baby is viable thus relieving yourself of any guilt that might come from committing a murder. At the same time, when somebody besides the mother commits the murder, you are then on that side of the fence, because it was out of the mother's hands. A murder is a murder...on one side its the mother doing it, on the other its someone other than the Mother, in which case, in many States, it is considered a murder.

If only the poor babies had a choice I bet they would choose life in either case.

#38 Postby **Stephanie** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:30 am

No prob j - I just would hate to also see the shoe on the other foot (i.e. man having to worry about this).

Until the next round... :roll:

southerngale · #39 Postby **southerngale** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:33 am

He/she is still a precious little gift from God...and yes, alive...whether he/she has been "born" or is still in the womb completing the miraculous process of growing inside the womb. I could never justify killing that innocent baby at any time.

#40 Postby **Stephanie** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:35 am

I know Southerngale.

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