Unbelievable

#41 Postby **pojo** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:18 pm

This happened in Neenah also. Same outcome. 16yr old boy died.... 14 and 15 yo in custody for homocide charges.

Lindaloo · #42 Postby **Lindaloo** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:19 pm

Great post as always Perry!! I agree 100%

JetMaxx · #43 Postby **JetMaxx** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:53 pm

The question the homeowner apparently didn't ask himself....can I handle this any other way?

One night this past July, I saw something or someone hiding behind a cedar tree in my front yard, the streetlight illuminating the moving shadow. Bear in mind, at the time....I was recieving threats because of my website honoring Jessica Lynch. I could have been foolish enough to fire a gun out the front door...tell the police "Hey...I was afraid it was some anti-war nutcase about to blow my head off". It's on record one of the death threats made against me was traced to the Chattanooga area, only 90 miles away. Add the fact I have a spotless criminal record, am best friends with the Douglas County commission chairperson, and several of my relatives are law enforcement officers, both in Douglas County and other metro counties; two cousins high ranking officers with the Douglas County Sheriff's Office. Heck, I even went to school with Judge Susan Camp's husband Scott, we're lifelong friends; have fished at Judge Nolen's lake...he and my late great uncle and aunt were best buddies. Everyone that knows me will tell you I'm nice, kind, laid back...a perfect gentleman...I could present dozens of character witnesses.

If I'd shot into the shadow that hot summer evening, there's a very good chance I'd never have been indicted by the grand jury...because I've seen a couple other well liked law abiding citizens avoid being charged for the same thing (who had also been threatened or traumatized by a recent crime against them or a loved one).

There's only one problem....I knew there was no need to shoot anyone and risk taking an innocent life. I have a conscience, and common sense that said "check it out" before "shooting to kill".

With my revolver in my hand (just in case my call was answered by gunshots), I called out firmly "Hey, what are you doing out there...huh"? Turned out to be a teenaged girl...playing a silly prank on her boyfriend by hiding behind a tree as he walked around the block. She walked out into the streetlight so I could see her, and I calmly advised her (just as I'd advise my own niece)...to please use caution in strangers yards after dark...because some folks will shoot at anything moving out of fear (true story: my late great-aunt Ruby once shot two holes in her back door with a .20 gauge shotgun. She was home alone, and mistook the noises at her door for a burglar....uncle Larry arrive home from work an hour later to find a large bloody dog lying dead under his carport :o :o ).

I definitely want to insure my safety and my family's safety at all times by owning firearms -- but the last thing I'd ever want to do is take an innocent life; especially a kid. If I did, I don't believe I'd need a jail cell or trial; because if I foolishly used my gun to take an innocent kid's life without justification....I'd also end my life. I couldn't bear to live knowing I'd taken some other uncle's loving niece or nephew away from them.

sunnyday · #44 Postby **sunnyday** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:44 pm

Don't we now have the biggest deficit in history? Clinton is not to blame for that. No more arguing politics, though--just agreeing to disagree.

stormchazer · #45 Postby **stormchazer** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:51 pm

sunnyday wrote:Don't we now have the biggest deficit in history? Clinton is not to blame for that. No more arguing politics, though--just agreeing to disagree.

I think you are in the wrong subject. If you go to the US Treasury page and look at the deficit numbers inclusive of Social Security, you will find we have run a deficit since WW II with both Dem and Rep Presidents. If you allow for inflation, there were larger deficits during the Carter (D) Administration. The newspaper you read everyday is notable for what it doesn't tell you. Read a good book on economics. You might find it is full of startling information.

The homeowner by the way...panicked

Lindaloo · #46 Postby **Lindaloo** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:03 pm

LOL stormchazer!!

sunnyday · #47 Postby **sunnyday** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:16 pm

You all are having a good laugh at my political 'ignorance.' Can I ask one thing? Do you find any fault with Bush or the conservatives at all?

Lindaloo · #48 Postby **Lindaloo** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:18 pm

No sunnyday, we are laughing because you posted in the wrong thread.

GalvestonDuck · #49 Postby **GalvestonDuck** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:36 pm

Lindaloo wrote:No sunnyday, we are laughing because you posted in the wrong thread.

Don't worry, Sunny. I've done it myself. Somehow one wrong click gets you to the reply box on another thread.

opera ghost · #50 Postby **opera ghost** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:46 pm

sunnyday wrote:You all are having a good laugh at my political 'ignorance.' Can I ask one thing? Do you find any fault with Bush or the conservatives at all?

Lets not go there here *grins* I've posted on the wrong thread before and it was usually worth a laugh of only because of the sudden change of topic. As for conservatives and Bush- I've bartered that back and forth quite a bit here. I have a distinct lean away from Bush and the conservatives (as a general group) but I keep that in threads which pertain to it so as to limit the amount of topic switching in mid post

This (returnign tot he origional topic) was a tragic mistake- but like I got punished as a kid for not realizing how rough I was playing with my little sister- this kind of mistake shouldn't go without comment or consequence.

sunnyday · #51 Postby **sunnyday** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:51 pm

LOL on me, Linda. I didn't even realize I had done that. This is what happens when I work so much I'm in a blur. Have you ever been so tired you are in a fog? Well, I am, obviously. lol
Anyway, no harm intended with my political comments whatever category I put them in! lol

Lindaloo · #52 Postby **Lindaloo** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:03 pm

LOL I am in the fog right now!! Been there am doing that now. hehe.

blizzard · #53 Postby **blizzard** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:35 pm

JetMaxx wrote:An important lesson that all teenagers need to learn....in this day and age of home invasions, it's not very wise to mess around strangers homes late at night.

After reading the article, my first reaction is sadness....but I honestly don't see it as more than a tragic accident. I'm sure charges will be filed against the homeowner (probably not murder...to possess a concealed weapons permit, Mr Levin had to have a spotless criminal record), but to be totally honest,<b>the reason the young man is dead is HIS OWN fault.</b> If he isn't trespassing and harrassing innocent folks trying to sleep, he's alive today.

A very sad and tragic story....very sad

First of all, I can't believe you said that. THe homeowner should have determined the level of threat before he went half cocked and killed an innocent teenager, yes I said innocent. Sorry for the rant, but there is no-way this is the teens fault. THe homeowner should be charged with manslaughter.

And by the way, since when did ringing someone's doorbell become "trespassing", right, it isn't trespassing at all.

stormchazer · #54 Postby **stormchazer** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:47 pm

sunnyday wrote:You all are having a good laugh at my political 'ignorance.' Can I ask one thing? Do you find any fault with Bush or the conservatives at all?

Actually yes...Bush caved on education, signed aan insane Election Reform law and the Republican in control of Congress are acting like weanies.

Oh...and I know that I will post in the wrong thread too sometime. Promise not to laugh??!!

Lindaloo · #55 Postby **Lindaloo** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:01 pm

blizzard... in all fairness to Perry. He changed his opinion on this in another thread. His comments were made before all the facts were out.

JetMaxx · #56 Postby **JetMaxx** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:41 pm

blizzard wrote:First of all, I can't believe you said that. THe homeowner should have determined the level of threat before he went half cocked and killed an innocent teenager, yes I said innocent. Sorry for the rant, but there is no-way this is the teens fault. THe homeowner should be charged with manslaughter.

And by the way, since when did ringing someone's doorbell become "trespassing", right, it isn't trespassing at all.

IF you'd taken the time to read the ENTIRE thread, you'd see I've changed my analysis BASED on details I learned since last weekend. At the time, there were uncomfirmed reports the teen was armed AND was shot just outside the front door...not as he was running away. I based my post Sunday on information available at that time

I am a veteran security officer with law enforcement training; as is my dad...a former military police officer. My cousins Dwayne and Scott are lieutenants with the local sheriff's office...their dad a retired Atlanta PD homicide detective...and the Atlanta Falcons Director of Security since 1990.
I grew up in a law enforcement family....but tend to lean in favor of the homeowner UNLESS and UNTIL I see evidence to the contrary.

I stated even last weekend that what we knew was sketchy, and an extensive criminal investigation would determine whether charges were prudent. Well, further evidence shows that manslaughter, and possibly even 2nd degree murder charges are appropriate against the homeowner. If you'd read the entire thread before posting your above "rant", you'd know my feelings have changed 180°....based on the evidence.

blizzard · #57 Postby **blizzard** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:03 am

I've heard your whole background before. Doesn't change my post. And I read the whole thread. But I still felt obligated to post my feelings also. And it really doesn't matter if you changed your mind or not, I still can't believe you said what you did.

And what is the difference if I go on a "Rant" or if you do. Just becasuse you change your mind 5 days later. Maybe I'll change my mind in 5 days too. Who knows.

JetMaxx · #58 Postby **JetMaxx** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:33 am

I don't particularly give a flying flip what you do and don't like about me or my posts blizzard. We come from different backgrounds and areas of the country. Georgia is a much more conservative state than Minnesota; or even southern Florida for that matter.

In Douglas County, Georgia...I honestly have doubts that the homeowner would even be indicted by a grand jury if it had occurred here (especially if he had a clean criminal record). If that p#sses you, I'm sorry. It IS that conservative here....folks don't just post those signs reading "WARNING: TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT" to scare...many of them mean it. My late great aunt once shot a dog through her front door thinking it was a burglar...remember? (the police didn't charge her either).

Until it was crystal clear to me that the teen was running away and the homeowner fired his gun anyway...I blamed the teen.
I now believe BOTH parties were at fault. The teen paid with his life...the homeowner will pay with his freedom.

blizzard · #59 Postby **blizzard** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:40 am

I sure hope that you never ring the wrong person's doorbell down there. I rather enjoy reading your rants. And no, none of what goes on down in your area p!$$e$ me off. That's what is so great about America and this board, I, too can post my feelings and you don't have to like it or agree with it. Just don't read them.

stormy · #60 Postby **stormy** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:53 am

there is this kid in my neighborhood, well at least once a month he rings the doorbell and then runs. sometimes it scares me, because i am not expecting it. i go outside and scream punk. i am sure he does it just to hear me scream. its a joke now, we never know when to expect it, but he will ring again.

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