SUPREME COURT destroys 1st amendment

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mf_dolphin
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#41 Postby mf_dolphin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:48 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:The Supreme Court decision does not restrict all political advertising within 60 days of the election. What it restricts is the "get-around-the-law" advertising which was funded illegally. Advertising which is paid for under the current law can still be done....


Helen, why don't you reply? Afraid of the truth? I did take the time to actually read the decision today...have you?
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rainstorm

#42 Postby rainstorm » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:49 pm

blizzard wrote:I am not sure that the media is as biased as you would like to imagine. Granted some are, but I don't believe during an election they are. They have debates on their shows and how can they bias those?


we will find out in 2004!! remeber that last minute drunk driving story on george bush in 2000? i strongly feel that killed his momentum. he was headed for an easy win. now the elite media, starting 60 days before an election can say whatever they want, but individuals can not have the same access to that media to say what they want. good luck, conservatives.
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#43 Postby blizzard » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:51 pm

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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#44 Postby mf_dolphin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:52 pm

Answer the question Helen...have you read the decision?
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#45 Postby rainstorm » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:52 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:
mf_dolphin wrote:The Supreme Court decision does not restrict all political advertising within 60 days of the election. What it restricts is the "get-around-the-law" advertising which was funded illegally. Advertising which is paid for under the current law can still be done....


Helen, why don't you reply? Afraid of the truth? I did take the time to actually read the decision today...have you?


have you replied how this makes the individual more powerful in the process? individual groups rights have been taken away 60 days prior to an election. i agree with antonin scalia, and rehnquist
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#46 Postby chadtm80 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:53 pm

Answer the question Helen...have you read the decision?

I think her none answer is answer enough :wink:
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#47 Postby mf_dolphin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:56 pm

And you're in the minority. :-) I didn't say this made the individual more powerful. I said that this limits the power of special interest groups and the very wealthy from acting as a political party's thinly vieled mouthpiece as a way of getting around the campaign finance laws. Now answer my question...have you read the decision or just the BS from someone elses views.
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#48 Postby blizzard » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:56 pm

rainstorm wrote:individual groups


Isn't that an oxymoron???

:lol: :lol:
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#49 Postby rainstorm » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:00 pm

again, i couldnt say it any better than this:


"The first instinct of power is the retention of power, and under a Constitution that requires periodic elections, that is best achieved by the suppression of election-time speech," Scalia wrote.
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#50 Postby mf_dolphin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:01 pm

Quotes from the Majority side...
Rooting out corruption, or even the appearance of it, justifies limitations on the free speech and free spending of contributors, candidates and political parties, the court said in a 5-4 decision.

"We are under no illusion that [the law] will be the last congressional statement on the matter," Justices John Paul Stevens and Sandra Day O'Connor wrote for the majority. "Money, like water, will always find an outlet. What problems will arise, and how Congress will respond, are concerns for another day."


The unlimited and often large donations known as "soft money" from rich people, corporations and labor unions had come to dominate elections for Congress and the White House, and evidence shows the money bought access for the wealthy or well-connected, a majority of the court said.


"Just as troubling to a functioning democracy as classic quid pro quo corruption is the danger that officeholders will decide issues not on the merits or the desires of their constituencies, but according to the wishes of those who have made large financial contributions valued by the officeholder," Stevens and O'Connor wrote.
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#51 Postby chadtm80 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:03 pm

LOL.. He says, she says... Marshall is right.. You didnt read the decision. you just read what others have said about it the go by that. Always a big mistake, exspecially when it has to do with politics
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rainstorm

bed time for now

#52 Postby rainstorm » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:16 pm

but one other consequence of this atrocity. look for democrts early in 2004 to file a lawsuit, under the provisions of this act, to forbid conservative talk radio to crticise democrats 60 days before an election. think this wont happen? it will!! and when it does, bush loses his strongest allies. they will use the pretext that talk radio is not part of the 'elite' media, becasue they dont give equal time to both sides.
this is a certainty. once you start down the road of silencing some people, the process will never end. how many people should be silenced?
unfortunately, i cant blame dems for this, bush signed the bill!!
and i will go along with what antonin scalia says, a brilliant man.
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#53 Postby mf_dolphin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:18 pm

rainstorm wrote:we will find out in 2004!! remeber that last minute drunk driving story on george bush in 2000? i strongly feel that killed his momentum. he was headed for an easy win. now the elite media, starting 60 days before an election can say whatever they want, but individuals can not have the same access to that media to say what they want. good luck, conservatives.


The truth is this ruling doesn't impact the media's ability to do this again on either side of the political fence. It also doesn't restrict either party from rebutting it either. So I don't know what your issue is Helen. You are trying to argue your point with examples that don't apply. When has an individual had the same access as the core media? NEVER!
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#54 Postby blizzard » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:20 pm

but one other consequence of this atrocity. look for democrts early in 2004 to file a lawsuit, under the provisions of this act, to forbid conservative talk radio to crticise democrats 60 days before an election. think this wont happen? it will!! and when it does, bush loses his strongest allies. they will use the pretext that talk radio is not part of the 'elite' media, becasue they dont give equal time to both sides.
this is a certainty. once you start down the road of silencing some people, the process will never end. how many people should be silenced?
unfortunately, i cant blame dems for this, bush signed the bill!!
and i will go along with what antonin scalia says, a brilliant man.


:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
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#55 Postby mf_dolphin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:29 pm

Amen Blizzard! :-) And she still hasn't answered my question ;-)
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#56 Postby GalvestonDuck » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:36 pm

blizzard wrote:
rainstorm wrote:individual groups


Isn't that an oxymoron???

:lol: :lol:


Darn, ya beat me to it. :wink:
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ColdFront77

#57 Postby ColdFront77 » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:07 am

rainstorm wrote:individual groups

blizzard wrote:Isn't that an oxymoron???

:lol: :lol:

At least oxymorons are true. :) :lol:
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#58 Postby rainstorm » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:15 am

nope, groups are comprised of individuals
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Re: 1st amendment

#59 Postby CaptinCrunch » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:31 am

WXBUFFJIM wrote:If the 1st amendment is in our CONSTITUTION, Then why is the supreme court breaking that constitution rule??? Do they just want to throw the constitution in the trash can or something. Man they're more harsh than even the politicans!!!

Jim


Our corrupted goverment is about power, money, and special intrest groups, and NOT for the people of this GREAT NATION. I thought it was "We the people".......RIGHT
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#60 Postby stormchazer » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:39 am

mf_dolphin wrote:Quotes from the Majority side...
Rooting out corruption, or even the appearance of it, justifies limitations on the free speech and free spending of contributors, candidates and political parties, the court said in a 5-4 decision.

"We are under no illusion that [the law] will be the last congressional statement on the matter," Justices John Paul Stevens and Sandra Day O'Connor wrote for the majority. "Money, like water, will always find an outlet. What problems will arise, and how Congress will respond, are concerns for another day."


It is this part that scares me most and yes I did read it. The court is saying that Congress can infringe on our right to free speech simply because there maybe an "appearance of corruption". Do you understand the significance of that statement? The Court out and out admitted that their decision infringes on our free speech. I have yet to see a decision by the court where an inch is giving, that has not been streched to a mile.

They further admit that this not the last statement on the matter. What will be the next infringement? What if they decide to block ads 6 months before? A year? What if they say that The Young Republicans can't call a meeting to discuss strategy because being funded by the RNC gives the "appearance of corruption"? Its a slippery slope and we just gave our free speech rights away a little more.
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