SAD DAY FOR THE TAXPAYER

[therock1811]

it seems like the only answer is to raise taxes and the retirement age, in the hopes seniors will die before they can collect anything, to keep the system solvent

Sorry, but......

You've GOTTA be kidding??? I don't think that Medicare/Medicaid is a waste of tax money...I get a veteran's pension every month myself...I don't feel as if I'm stealing anyone's money! In fact, I feel as if I'm getting what is coming because of what the government ASKED my father to do, not what he was FORCED to do...and that was to serve his country, NO I don't believe that going into Vietnam was the right thing to do, but by rights I should be compensated for what Agent Orange did to me and my dad, I for one WANT to work even getting that pension, I don't think the world owes me a living, but by rights I should be compensated (and my dad as well) for what my dad did for his country...just my $ .02 (or should I say $ .20)......

[mf_dolphin]

If you're talking about 'wealth" as total net worth then of course they won't disagree. But can you spend your net worth for food and meds? How long do you think 100K goes? Answer the questions please!

20-30 yr olds need food and medicine too

I guess you just don't want to answer the question. Medicare has nothing to do with 20-30 year olds. There are public programs out there to help those in need Unfortunately there are still holes that people fall through.

You insist on simple fixes to complex problems and when you are questioned on your views you ignore the questions. If you really want to debate these issues please be my guest, but if you just post to spew political rhetoric...don't bother

[rainstorm]

sorry, but raising taxes for an uneeded program is not the answer. it was simple vote buying

[therock1811]

If you really want to debate these issues please be my guest, but if you just post to spew political rhetoric...don't bother

I gotta second mf's comment here...I may have different views than you or anyone else, BUT if someone is gonna ask me a question, I'm gonna at least try to answer, and if I don't know, I'll tell you so...but I'm NOT going to avoid the question...

[mf_dolphin]

Where is the justification that the program is unneeded? I posted a whole series of figures that say it is needed and desperately so. You choose to ignore them and just say "it's unneeded".

The figures you posted do say a lot about what happens when we work all our life and maybe, just maybe, we have something to show for it when we retire. $100,000 net worth is actually a scary figure if you look at the cost of living for a year.

As far as raising taxes, it may happen but it hasn't yet. We do have a social responsibility to help care for our neighbors and those who aren't able to care for themselves. Is the current Medicare Bill perfect? No, but it's a compromise and a step in the right direction. Do politicians pass legislation like this in an election year for a reason? Sure! However, to suggest that the only reason that this bill passed is because of an election year is both short sighted and inaccurate. Both parties have been working on different versions of this kind of bill because it's needed!

[therock1811]

Both parties have been working on different versions of this kind of bill because it's need!

I'll say one more thing and then step off my soapbox for now...Both sides have been working on this for a while now...while I don't support one or the other of the originals, I do support this b/c I know for a fact that someday one of my family members may need it... in fact, we all know that we may need it someday, even you...

[GalvestonDuck]

sorry, but raising taxes for an uneeded program is not the answer. it was simple vote buying

Unneeded? Where do you get that it's unnecessary?

Furthermore, one of the benefits of this bill will be to send more Medicare funds to rural doctors, clinics, and hospitals. If that helps some rural TX patients so they don't have to travel all the way down here to Galveston to be seen at UTMB (which they do now because the community clinics won't see them and we aren't allowed to turn anyone away, regardless of ability to pay), I'm all for that.

[Lindaloo]

Shawn, are you near a children's burn center there in Galveston?

[rainstorm]

sorry, but it is an unneeded program. it is simply a vote buying scheme. the tax burden this will produce will be enormous.. the sad thing is it will grow exponentially. and to answer your question about needing help one day, if i were allowed to keep all my ss and medicare confiscated premiums from the age of 25-60, i wouldnt need any help, i would have all i need and more. also, another point. ss and medicare should be voluntary. if you want to contribute, do so. but if you think you can do better in private plans, do so as well(and you would).
one final point. if people were allowed to use thier money to purchase individual insurance coverage the prices of medical coverage would drop drastically. its called competition. did you know it is illeaga for insurance companies to offer low cost policies with high deductibles to individuals? it is. i agree with street soldier. the govt should be there to provide for documented cases of need, and for catastophic cases.

[GalvestonDuck]

Shawn, are you near a children's burn center there in Galveston?

As near as near could be. Right across the street from my office building is Shriner's Burn Center and my house is just across the corner from it on the other side.

[mf_dolphin]

sorry, but it is an unneeded program. it is simply a vote buying scheme. the tax burden this will produce will be enormous..

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so. Wat do you have to say about the 14.4 million Americans that my previous list will be helped by the new Medicare Bill?[/quote]

the sad thing is it will grow exponentially.

Another unsupported statement? I 've seen no evidence that exponential growth is even a possibility much less a fact.

and to answer your question about needing help one day, if i were allowed to keep all my ss and medicare confiscated premiums from the age of 25-60, i wouldnt need any help, i would have all i need and more.

There is no way you can say that for sure. How do you know what your costs will be? A single catastrophic health event can wipe out whatever you have invested in your own healthcare. When that's gone where do you turn for help???

also, another point. ss and medicare should be voluntary. if you want to contribute, do so. but if you think you can do better in private plans, do so as well(and you would).

I might buy into a portion being discretionary but someone has to pay for those in need. That mean's us normal taxpayers. Like it or not we'll pay one way or the other.

one final point. if people were allowed to use thier money to purchase individual insurance coverage the prices of medical coverage would drop drastically. its called competition.

Sorry but BULL! The only thing that places any control on healthcare costs now is the buying strength of corporate america. If you don't believe that go try and price out your own healthcare coverage. When a company can negotiate a group plan it's always lower cost than an individual plan. That's nothing more than the age old law of "if I buy more I can negotiate a better price". One of the biggest single factors in the out of control cost of healthcare is the "Pain and Suffering" awards and the insurance companies. These have skyrocketed the cost of liability insurance and we all pay! Get these under some reasonable controls and then you have leverage to turn the screws on the healthcare system.

did you know it is illeaga for insurance companies to offer low cost policies with high deductibles to individuals? it is.

I would love to see where it's illegal. Considering some of your other "facts" forgive me if I ask for a reference.

i agree with street soldier. the govt should be there to provide for documented cases of need, and for catastophic cases.

Well now we're making progress! How should these programs be paid for? You don't want to pay taxes because it's stealing your money and yet you agree these programs are needed. I can't wait to here this one

[Stephanie]

If I'm not mistaken, I think that this current Medicare bill has been in the works for 6 years. It is a very complex issue and it is still a work in progress. What we have now in this bill is better than nothing.

Helen, your answers sound like they've been pre-recorded.

[streetsoldier]

I put that amended quote in the other thread for a reason, Helen et al; it is because I had to PROVE to some faceless bureaucrats that I was, indeed, disabled beyond a question of doubt, and even then I had to go before an "administrative law judge" for arbitration before I began receiving any SS disability benefits at all.

Fortunately, I came well-prepared and overdocumented, with page after page of medical findings and second opinions supporting my claim.

YES, I did what I said Jack Kennedy should have said; my principles remain intact, but I also had to drop my "pride" like a bad habit to do so....that kind of "pride" which makes men and women refuse aid, to their ultimate detriment.

Again I ask you, Helen...before you roast those of us who need assistance (and those legislators who are trying to secure it for us), try walking in our shoes just ONCE..see for yourself.

[ColdFront77]

Again I ask you, Helen...before you roast those of us who need assistance (and those legislators who are trying to secure it for us), try walking in our shoes just ONCE..see for yourself.

Exactly right Bill.

I am getting and need assistance. I would like to buy some things, but it seems to me that my parents don't want me to so I don't. At some points in my life I will be. There is no question that I shouldn't be getting money for my condition.

[Guest]

I'm a bit skeptical of this bill myself. I'm also a bit skeptical of anything that has to do with raising my taxes. As a 20 something myself, I know (and so do most others in my age cohort) that social security and medicare will not be around to support us in our later years. Obviously I feel like the govt is taking away money from me that I could be using to save for my own well being/future. I understand that there are people who need help, people of all ages. So because of this, am I just supposed to shut up and pay up for the next 40 something years? Nope, I'll just vote against the people who think so. Just my personal opinion.

[rainstorm]

Both parties have been working on different versions of this kind of bill because it's need!

I'll say one more thing and then step off my soapbox for now...Both sides have been working on this for a while now...while I don't support one or the other of the originals, I do support this b/c I know for a fact that someday one of my family members may need it... in fact, we all know that we may need it someday, even you...

both sides have been working on it because they want to outbid each other for votes. as i said, just wait till 2004 elections. which party will win the bidding war to make this program even more expensive? and it is not needed. only 3.6 % of eniors said they needed help buying drugs. also, they seem to be living longer and longer.

[rainstorm]

I'm a bit skeptical of this bill myself. I'm also a bit skeptical of anything that has to do with raising my taxes. As a 20 something myself, I know (and so do most others in my age cohort) that social security and medicare will not be around to support us in our later years. Obviously I feel like the govt is taking away money from me that I could be using to save for my own well being/future. I understand that there are people who need help, people of all ages. So because of this, am I just supposed to shut up and pay up for the next 40 something years? Nope, I'll just vote against the people who think so. Just my personal opinion.

exactly mrschad!! no one cares about the tax payer, only how they can buy more votes. and yes, competition would make prices much lower. works every time. you know why prices are so high? because doctors can charge insurance companies whatever they want, because their is no competion. plus, the govt can just steal more of our money anytime they want to pay for it. no big

[rainstorm]

Assets by Age Group Table 1 shows mean and median(2) family financial assets(3) in 1995, classifying families by the age of the family head.

The median level of gross financial assets over all U.S. families in 1995 was about $2,700.(4) After subtracting unsecured debt, the median level of net financial assets for all families was $1,000. For U.S. families with head age 45-54, median gross financial assets were about $4,200, and median net financial assets were about $1,700 in 1995. Families with head age 55-64 had median gross financial assets of about $6,900 and median net financial assets of about $4,800. Median financial assets are greater for older age groups, peaking in the age group 65-74 at about $12,500 of net financial assets, then declining to about $10,300 for families with heads age 75 and older.


10,300 is still well above the 45-54 group
umm, median financial assets are greater for older age groups

[rainstorm]

Age of Head Net Worth Home Equity Net Worth Less Home Equity
Mean Median Mean Median Mean Median
25-34 $23,505 $5,579 $11,052 $0 $12,454 $3,375
35-44 $62,167 $25,688 $32,381 $9,070 $29,787 $8,000
45-54 $108,343 $53,975 $50,595 $28,449 $57,747 $14,675
55-64 $146,604 $86,478 $65,440 $49,927 $81,165 $19,873
65-74 $155,586 $97,474 $71,486 $55,000 $84,100 $26,004
75 and older $127,379 $80,000 $61,141 $40,000 $66,238 $18,104
All a $89,634 $35,459 $42,341 $14,641 $47,293 $10,005
a - Families with head age 25 or older.

Source: Capital Research Associates analysis of Survey of Income and Program Participation data.


as you can see, the 65-74 age group is doing quite well and even the 75+ group is still well above the median, (all), and they are well above the poor 25-64 yr olds

[rainstorm]

again, we should have means testing, and help for those who truly need it