Bible Study Coming to New Braunfels ISD

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sunny
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#61 Postby sunny » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:05 am

wxcrazytwo wrote:
sunny wrote:
feederband wrote:Things are still evoving today...This is a fact based teaching...Not a belief in a book that can't be proven...I guess you would probably say that dinosaurs and humans walked the earth at the same time. Because the bible time line makes the earth about 6000 years old....I say I like the evolution teaching better..


I don't have children. But if I did - suppose I said that I did not want my child's believes in God to be countered? What would you say to that? Because I would teach my child that God created the world AND man. If you are going to teach one, then the other should be offered as well.


If you had children (you can have mine if you wish. :wink: ), but if you had children teaching them that only God created man is ridiculous. You will have problems when it comes to human biology and so forth. I say let them learn that stuff when the time is right.


lol - OMG!!!! Dude, all I have ever believed ALL MY LIFE is that God created man! And I have never had one single problem when it comes to human biology.
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#62 Postby sunny » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:06 am

fwbbreeze wrote:Sunny my friend it is useless to argue with individuals that don't believe as you and I do. Mine and your views will never change on the matter as will theirs. Rest assured our faith is what guides us in our beliefs and I will stand by my faith(beliefs) forever. If you objectively look at this I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective. The class as stated in the article is the bibles influence on culture....that is very relevant no matter what your religious beliefs are. My point is that this class has as much relevance and meaning as a class on evolution. That is why it should be allowed as an elective.

fwbbreeze


You are 1000% right Kent.
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#63 Postby feederband » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:06 am

gtalum wrote:
fwbbreeze wrote:...I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective...


Even as an atheist, I concur. The Bible is a valid and valuable document, even if it is a work of mythology. It provides a lot of insight into ancient civilization.


Wow I agree with you...I think that might be the second time... :lol:
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#64 Postby sunny » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:11 am

x-y-no wrote:
sunny wrote:
x-y-no wrote:
sunny wrote:That's fine - but if evolution can be taught in school then why can't the Word of the Bible?


Because the former is science, the latter is religion.


So it's okay to teach that the world "evolved" but not that it was "created"?


There is a wealth of scientific evidence for evolution in the form of an enormous hierarchy of relationships between species, both on the macro level and the molecular level. This hierarchy is predicted by the theory of evolution, and specifically the existence and function of some molecular mechanism of heredity like DNA was predicted long before DNA was discovered.

If someone was to discover scientific evidence for creation and that discovery stood the test of replication by other independent researches, then and only then would it be appropriate to teach creation as science.


But not approriate to teach the God had anything to do with creation? Like Mama said - one-sided.
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#65 Postby kevin » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:12 am

Abiogenesis is a separate issue from evolution. You might as well try and disprove gravity and a round earth, because those theories of round earth and gravity are as well supported as evolution. Abiogenesis which is the formation of living creatures from inorganic materials isn't on as sturdy of ground.

We know evolution occured and occurs. What we know to a very strong degree (just like we know to a very strong degree relativity) is that natural selection is the driving force behind evolution. The only possible change to our understanding is that natural selection is perhaps involved to a slightly lesser or slightly greater degree.

As for teaching the word of god in schools. Which god? Which value based system? Why are schools instructing in morals and ideas to begin with? Why should they instruct in your morals and ideas? Because the founding fathers allegedly held them (which is false by the way, they were hardly christians)? Well that was two hundred years ago, and a lot can happen in two hundred years. The Roman empire in fact within two hundred years can go from worshipping a pantheon of Roman/Greek/Egyptian gods to worshipping the Unconquerable Sun to worshipping Jesus in that time.

There's no reason why in America the bible should be taught as divinely inspired. There are many religions and groups in these United States and as citizens they are free to move and enroll in any school district they live within. So even if 100% of your district is full of divinely inspired preachers you cannot teach a book as the word of god, because if I had a son and we moved to your area, you would be forcing him to learn something which has no basis in fact and is only believed by those of a certain faith. Evolution on the other hand is accepted by almost everyone who is not an Islamist or a Conservative Christian. Believe it or not, the books you might have read about evolution are filled with so many lies they make people like me red in the face, they lie about what Darwin wrote, they lie about physical facts, they lie and repeat them enough it makes me want to throw up.

Scientists have no interest in changing anyone's value-system, only in discovering the best set of ideas for predicting and understanding the natural world. We could care less what books you read and instruct in your home. What I as an American will not stand for is the stupidification of America which results when dogma is taught not as dogma within a church but objective fact within a classroom. Its bad enough we have to go fight religious theocracies around the world without instructing our kids in religion in the secular domain.

Kevin
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#66 Postby wxcrazytwo » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:13 am

feederband wrote:
gtalum wrote:
fwbbreeze wrote:...I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective...


Even as an atheist, I concur. The Bible is a valid and valuable document, even if it is a work of mythology. It provides a lot of insight into ancient civilization.


Wow I agree with you...I think that might be the second time... :lol:


I agree, but not enough to teach a friggin class in it. They did a scientific study on people's brain waves when they think about GOD. What they found was that when we think about GOD, the brain waves really heat up thinking about, so the conclusion is that GOD is created in the mind, and when one thinks about him, they really think. I'll have to find the study. Of course, if you believe in GOD, than you have to believe in intelligent life from space, since GOD is an intelligent being from higher up (get my drift)
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#67 Postby gtalum » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:14 am

Greek, Roman, and Egyptian mythology are taught in school. Christian mythology holds the same value as they do.
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#68 Postby Skywatch_NC » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:16 am

feederband wrote:
gtalum wrote:
fwbbreeze wrote:...I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective...


Even as an atheist, I concur. The Bible is a valid and valuable document, even if it is a work of mythology. It provides a lot of insight into ancient civilization.


Wow I agree with you...I think that might be the second time... :lol:


Hmm...the Bible is a valid and valuable document...yet you say (claim) it is a work of mythology! :roll:
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#69 Postby kevin » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:16 am

Absolutely. They should all be taught in comparative religion. Which people will get upset about because it doesn't put their faith in a privileged group. But nevertheless the only way of making students feel as if their faith is not under threat is by not making the course mandatory and not elevating one value/world system above the other.
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#70 Postby kevin » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:17 am

Skywatch_NC wrote:
feederband wrote:
gtalum wrote:
fwbbreeze wrote:...I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective...


Even as an atheist, I concur. The Bible is a valid and valuable document, even if it is a work of mythology. It provides a lot of insight into ancient civilization.


Wow I agree with you...I think that might be the second time... :lol:


Hmm...the Bible is a valid and valuable document...yet you say (claim) it is a work of mythology! :roll:


Yes, you can read the Hesiod and understand Greek mythology. It is a valid and valuable document.
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#71 Postby wxcrazytwo » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:18 am

Skywatch_NC wrote:
feederband wrote:
gtalum wrote:
fwbbreeze wrote:...I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective...


Even as an atheist, I concur. The Bible is a valid and valuable document, even if it is a work of mythology. It provides a lot of insight into ancient civilization.


Wow I agree with you...I think that might be the second time... :lol:


Hmm...the Bible is a valid and valuable document...yet you say (claim) it is a work of mythology! :roll:


http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/30/30_4a.html

Eric, Aesops book of fables is a good and valid book, so what is your point? :wink: :lol:
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#72 Postby Skywatch_NC » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:19 am

kevin wrote:
Skywatch_NC wrote:
feederband wrote:
gtalum wrote:
fwbbreeze wrote:...I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective...


Even as an atheist, I concur. The Bible is a valid and valuable document, even if it is a work of mythology. It provides a lot of insight into ancient civilization.


Wow I agree with you...I think that might be the second time... :lol:


Hmm...the Bible is a valid and valuable document...yet you say (claim) it is a work of mythology! :roll:


Yes, you can read the Hesiod and understand Greek mythology. It is a valid and valuable document.


No thank you.

The Word of God is enough for me!
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#73 Postby feederband » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:19 am

Still to me keep religion in the churches or their place of worship...You won't see be in a church preaching evolution....
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#74 Postby x-y-no » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:19 am

sunny wrote:But not approriate to teach the God had anything to do with creation? Like Mama said - one-sided.


The problem is that there's no independent scientific evidence for any particular religious creation story. So yes, it's appropriate for the government to teach science (the systematic study of nature) but not for the government to teach a particular religious belief as truth.

That's not one sided, it's fair. The government may not declare any particular religion false either.

What would be one-sided would be if we used the power of the state to favor one religion over others.
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#75 Postby Skywatch_NC » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:20 am

wxcrazytwo wrote:
Skywatch_NC wrote:
feederband wrote:
gtalum wrote:
fwbbreeze wrote:...I still believe that this class should be allowed to be taught as an elective...


Even as an atheist, I concur. The Bible is a valid and valuable document, even if it is a work of mythology. It provides a lot of insight into ancient civilization.


Wow I agree with you...I think that might be the second time... :lol:


Hmm...the Bible is a valid and valuable document...yet you say (claim) it is a work of mythology! :roll:


http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/30/30_4a.html

Eric, Aesops book of fables is a good and valid book, so what is your point? :wink: :lol:


I'd like to know what your POINT is! :lol:
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#76 Postby sunny » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:22 am

x-y-no wrote:
sunny wrote:But not approriate to teach the God had anything to do with creation? Like Mama said - one-sided.


The problem is that there's no independent scientific evidence for any particular religious creation story. So yes, it's appropriate for the government to teach science (the systematic study of nature) but not for the government to teach a particular religious belief as truth.

That's not one sided, it's fair. The government may not declare any particular religion false either.

What would be one-sided would be if we used the power of the state to favor one religion over others.


I'm not saying to teach one religion over another. I am saying that offering a Bible study class as an elective would be only fair.
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#77 Postby feederband » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:23 am

sunny wrote:
x-y-no wrote:
sunny wrote:But not approriate to teach the God had anything to do with creation? Like Mama said - one-sided.


The problem is that there's no independent scientific evidence for any particular religious creation story. So yes, it's appropriate for the government to teach science (the systematic study of nature) but not for the government to teach a particular religious belief as truth.

That's not one sided, it's fair. The government may not declare any particular religion false either.

What would be one-sided would be if we used the power of the state to favor one religion over others.




I'm not saying to teach one religion over another. I am saying that offering a Bible study class as an elective would be only fair.



It is offered a church that should be good enough...
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#78 Postby kevin » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:23 am

Skywatch the problem is you're using a different subset of the english language than we are, or at least gtalum and the rest of us atheists are. We are talking about historical importance, you are talking about salvation.
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#79 Postby kevin » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:25 am

If you offer a bible study elective (salvation or divinely inspired based) you had best offer one for islam, buddhism, and hinduism. Otherwise if any students hold those beliefs in your entire school they have every right to have those classes. Atheist kids have the right to a critical religion class where they read Ingersol and debate the ignorance of faith.
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#80 Postby Skywatch_NC » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:25 am

kevin wrote:Skywatch the problem is you're using a different subset of the english language than we are, or at least gtalum and the rest of us atheists are. We are talking about historical importance, you are talking about salvation.


Kevin,

The Bible is of historical importance, too. It's not Grimm Brothers fairy tales as some would like to perceive.

Eric
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