NYC SCHOOLS, birth of christ not an historical event?

[rainstorm]

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BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
NYC district denies
birth of Jesus?
Nativity scene barred as not 'historically accurate representation of an event'

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Posted: November 12, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

In a dispute over display of holiday symbols, New York City schools are allowing Jewish menorahs and Islamic crescents but barring Christian nativity scenes, alleging the depiction of the birth of Christ does not represent a historical event.

In pleadings with a federal court in defense of the ban, New York City lawyers asserted the "suggestion that a crèche is a historically accurate representation of an event with secular significance is wholly disingenuous."

The Jewish and Islamic symbols are allowed, the district says, because they have a secular dimension, but the Christian symbols are "purely religious."

Robert J. Muise, who will challenge the school policy at a federal court hearing tomorrow in Brooklyn, told WorldNetDaily be believes most Americans don't see it that way.

"The birth of Jesus is a historical event which serves as the basis for celebration of Christmas," Muise stated. "It's of importance for both Christians and non-Christians."

Muise's Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center filed a motion to temporarily restrain the city from enforcing its ban on nativity scenes. The center asserts New York's policy "promotes the Jewish and Islamic faiths while conveying the impermissible message of disapproval of Christianity in violation of the U.S. Constitution."

The Michigan group says one public-school principal issued a memo encouraging teachers to bring to school "religious symbols" that represent the Islamic and Jewish religions, but made no mention of Christianity.

Jewish menorahs adorned the halls of the school as part of the authorized displays, the More Center said, but students were not allowed to make and similarly display nativity scenes

A parent who wrote a letter of complaint to her son's teacher received a copy of the school's "Holiday Displays" policy in response.

Kate Ahlers, communications director for New York City's law department, says schools can use things that are secular like menorahs, stars and snowflakes, but the crèche is considered religious.

"There is a separation of church and state that is part of the Constitution," she claimed. "It's a clear belief that people try to follow in schools and public office, and schools are saying they adhere to that belief."

The point of schools, she added, "is not to debate religion; the point of schools is to teach children."

The federal civil-rights lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrea Skoros and her two elementary-school children against the city of New York and several school officials.

Skoros and her children are devout Roman Catholics.

"Can Christianity be erased from a public school?" Muse asked in a statement. "Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find out."

[GalvestonDuck]

Hold up! A menorah is allowed, but a depiction of the birth of Christ isn't? Didn't the menorah (7 candles) originate as symbol of the 7 nights that the Hewbrews had light from that little bit of oil they had on their exodus from Egypt? Both stories are depicted in the Bible and the first one is also in the Torah. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm Christian not Jewish. But I thought the Torah was basically a Hebrew version of the Old Testament.

So how can one be deemed historical and the other not?

And just what is the symbolism behind the Islamic crescent? (Not being sarcastic...I really don't know).

Skoros is Catholic? Hmmmph!

[Stephanie]

Hold up! A menorah is allowed, but a depiction of the birth of Christ isn't? Didn't the menorah (7 candles) originate as symbol of the 7 nights that the Hewbrews had light from that little bit of oil they had on their exodus from Egypt? Both stories are depicted in the Bible and the first one is also in the Torah. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm Christian not Jewish. But I thought the Torah was basically a Hebrew version of the Old Testament.

So how can one be deemed historical and the other not?

And just what is the symbolism behind the Islamic crescent? (Not being sarcastic...I really don't know).

Skoros is Catholic? Hmmmph!

I thought so too. Do we need to also insert "Mosque and Temple"? I hope that the state remembers then not to close for religious holidays. NY is great for observing the Jewish holidays as well.

In a way the whole thing is being treated bass-ackwards. The separation of church and state was to allow for the freedom of expression and thoughts by people of all faiths. Now we're trying to surpress it! Insane!

[JCT777]

"Can Christianity be erased from a public school?" Muse asked in a statement. "Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find out."

It looks like we are headed in that direction. I agree with Stephanie, this is completely insane. Soon all workplaces and schools will remain open on Christmas because it is a religious holiday and not a secular one.

In fact, let's just go one step further and not publicly acknowledge Christmas in any way. No more ads on TV and in the newspaper for buying Christmas gifts. No more Christmas specials. No more Christmas music on the radio. Oh, and don't even THINK about decorating the outside of your house for Christmas - in the event that a non-Christian may see the decorations and become scarred for life.

[opera ghost]

You guys know my stance on the seperation of church and state....






BUT That's freaking nuts. In my opinion- The state shouldn't support a religion in our schools (IE with the promotion of prayer or anything of that sort). But that does not mean that they should ban christianity from it's time as a historical subject- especially if equal time is being given to other religions. We can't close our eyes, stick our fingers in our ears and scream LALALALALA Christianity Doesn't Exist LALALALALA....

[stormchazer]

Tis scary indeed. There seems to be a backlash against Christianity these days. I am by no means a practicing Christian but I am disturb by what I see as the erasing of a very long history of Christianity.

[TexasStooge]

Oh, here we go again with that separation of church and state issue. Will they ever give it a rest?????!!!!!

[stormchazer]

Oh, here we go again with that separation of church and state issue. Will they ever give it a rest?????!!!!!

I found it ironic that in our zest to seperate church and state, that the state is actually suppressing the church. Gives credence to those that say it was to protect the church from government and not the other way around.

[streetsoldier]

The lighting of the candles on the menorah is, for Judaism, relatively recent.

It commemorates the rededication of the Temple by the Maccabees after defeating several armies of Macedonian mercenaries sent by Antiochus IV Epiphanes (descendant of one of Alexander the Great's generals) about 165 BC. The Temple had been desecrated by slaughtering pigs in the Holy of Holies, and in one instance a mass rape of 20 captured Jewish virgins, one after another within the Temple precincts by a Macedonian general.

There was oil for only one night, but the flame on the lamp burned for eight days...which was seen as a miracle from God. This, AFLAC, is why Hannukah is celebrated.

[GalvestonDuck]

That's right! Eight, not seven. Thanks, Bill!

[sunnyday]

The more God is removed from our society, the more downhill the society moves==at a breakneck pace. What a shame..

[rainstorm]

there is no separation of church and state in the constitution. it is not there. there is the clause that says the state may not establish a 'state' religion.

[wx247]

How sad... truly 'tis a shame.

[GalvestonDuck]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[opera ghost]

I think we were all agreeing on the topic at hand. Not necessarily going to agree about extrapoliations on the theme...

[azsnowman]

Makes me SICK to my stomach this does! ONE of these days and VERY soon (yes, I seem to say this quite a bit but take a look around us) God's gonna step in and put a STOP to all this THEN what are these people gonna say, "Wait, we have to file a lawsuit, contact the ACLU, this is a violation of our privacy and constitutional rights, you can't do this without a court order!" "Grrrrrrr!"

Dennis

[azsnowman]

And YES......I'm a FIRM, VERY FIRM believer that prayer SHOULD be allowed in schools, don't like it??? Move to Iraq!

Dennis

[GalvestonDuck]

God's gonna step in and put a STOP to all this THEN what are these people gonna say, "Wait, we have to file a lawsuit, contact the ACLU, this is a violation of our privacy and constitutional rights, you can't do this without a court order!" "Grrrrrrr!"

I can just see it now. The rest of us get raptured and then the ACLU goes to the Supreme Court (which would be half-empty) and whines, "That's offensive. That's unconstititutional. Do something! Stop this! Now!" And then the whole world would blow up...and start all over.

[rainstorm]

thats why bush needs to get his judges through. liberals cant pass their extremely unpopular agenda through the legislative process, so they depend on judges to impose their agenda on all of us

[opera ghost]

And YES......I'm a FIRM, VERY FIRM believer that prayer SHOULD be allowed in schools, don't like it??? Move to Iraq!

Dennis

Why should I move to another country when the country I'm living in has laws that support my beliefs?

Oh, by the way rainstorm- the judicial branch cannot pass laws. Period. End of statement. They don't have the power. They can only interpret laws that have already been passed. Or rule on the constitutionality of the laws that have already been passed. They have the power of veto as a check and balance. Checks and balances that were clearly outlined in the constitution to prevent one person or faction from rising to power and taking over our country.