Favor or not the Bush plan to send missions to moon and mars

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Favor or not Bush plan to go to moon and mars?

Yes
8
36%
No
10
45%
Undecided about the issue
4
18%
 
Total votes: 22

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cycloneye
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Favor or not the Bush plan to send missions to moon and mars

#1 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:11 pm

I am doing this poll to see how the members are thinking about this Bush proposal to send missions to the moon and to mars if all favor it,do not favor it or you dont have an opinion about this.

I dont favor it (at this time) becase the US has a big trade deficit and also there are many necessitys in the US that require plenty of money but if the deficit goes away then in the long term I would favor those missions.
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#2 Postby weatherluvr » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:15 pm

I posted my reasoning in another thread. I believe it will bring enormous benefits, economically and technologically, in the long run.
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#3 Postby azsnowman » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:22 pm

Moon, YES......MARS, Naaaa.....besides, the Rover isn't on Mars, I'm tellin' ya's, it's in Sedona Az!

Dennis
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#4 Postby Rainband » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:24 pm

NO..not now. What good is a mission we won't be able to afford in the long run :roll:
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#5 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:30 pm

azsnowman wrote:Moon, YES......MARS, Naaaa.....besides, the Rover isn't on Mars, I'm tellin' ya's, it's in Sedona Az!

Dennis


I like that alternative Dennis go to the moon and make a base there but not to mars because it will cost extra $billons.
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#6 Postby streetsoldier » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:18 pm

On this subject, I am uncharacteristically uncertain...perhaps a moon shot is within range, but a Mars manned probe is not within our present means and technology to accomplish.

Somewhere, there is a kid who may come up with the MECHANICAL basis for "warp drive" (it is mathematically feasible)...but not in the foreseeable future, IMHO.

I want more concrete data.
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#7 Postby BEER980 » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:00 pm

Ah but Mars is within our range streetsoldier. I will dig up an article I read a few days ago about dog sledding to Mars. I think the government plan was 400 Billion and this plan was 40 Billion. It said we could have people there in 2007 I think. It actually was using older technology. I will post it on Friday.
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#8 Postby wx247 » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:28 pm

IMHO... no!!!! I was just discussing this with my grandparents over dinner.

Our schools are facing enormous cuts, homeland security is underfunded, we have a huge load to carry in Iraq, our roads are in need of major repair, need I go on??? I personally find it irresponsible to focus on Mars when there are people in this country who can't read.

You want to create jobs... let's work on alternative energy sources, drilling in Alaska so we are less dependant on foreign oil, or pay people to dig up crap on Howard Dean (that shouldn't be hard).

My point is this... going to another country to remove an evil dictator -- I understand that. Knowing what kind of rock is on Mars and sending people there while the schools are crumbling. I think not... Hmmm... I must have an opinion on this issue. ;)
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#9 Postby weatherluvr » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:35 pm

BEER980 wrote:Ah but Mars is within our range streetsoldier. I will dig up an article I read a few days ago about dog sledding to Mars. I think the government plan was 400 Billion and this plan was 40 Billion. It said we could have people there in 2007 I think. It actually was using older technology. I will post it on Friday.


That's Dr. Robert Zubrin's "live off the land" philosophy that NASA has now embraced. It will be put to the test in about 10 years when they launch a sample return mission. One ship will land a year before, manufacture the rocket fuel for the return trip by turning carbon dioxide into methane, so when the second ship lands, a fully fueled rocket will be ready for the return trip.

His book, The Case for Mars, is a fascinating read, for anybody interested.
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#10 Postby southerngale » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:53 pm

wx247 wrote:IMHO... no!!!! I was just discussing this with my grandparents over dinner.

Our schools are facing enormous cuts, homeland security is underfunded, we have a huge load to carry in Iraq, our roads are in need of major repair, need I go on??? I personally find it irresponsible to focus on Mars when there are people in this country who can't read.

You want to create jobs... let's work on alternative energy sources, drilling in Alaska so we are less dependant on foreign oil, or pay people to dig up crap on Howard Dean (that shouldn't be hard).

My point is this... going to another country to remove an evil dictator -- I understand that. Knowing what kind of rock is on Mars and sending people there while the schools are crumbling. I think not... Hmmm... I must have an opinion on this issue. ;)


Garrett...if we waited on every single person to have a job and every single child to learn to read, and not a single pothole in America, we'd have never landed on the moon in the first place. Btw...I think parents should be held accountable if their kids can't read, not the government. It's fine for the government to teach them, but it's the parents responsibility to make sure they learn. ;)
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#11 Postby JQ Public » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:05 pm

Not to get way off topic, but i think its both the gov's and the parent's responsibility to make kids learn and do well in school.
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#12 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:31 am

BEER980 wrote:Ah but Mars is within our range streetsoldier. I will dig up an article I read a few days ago about dog sledding to Mars. I think the government plan was 400 Billion and this plan was 40 Billion. It said we could have people there in 2007 I think. It actually was using older technology. I will post it on Friday.


It will be interesting to read about that Beer.
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#13 Postby stormchazer » Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:52 am

We are a people built on exploration. We will never be sure what benifits we may find until we go out there. I have always thought that the Earth will not last forever, so we must expand our possibilities to allow for the possible future.
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#14 Postby wx247 » Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:07 am

southerngale wrote:
wx247 wrote:IMHO... no!!!! I was just discussing this with my grandparents over dinner.

Our schools are facing enormous cuts, homeland security is underfunded, we have a huge load to carry in Iraq, our roads are in need of major repair, need I go on??? I personally find it irresponsible to focus on Mars when there are people in this country who can't read.

You want to create jobs... let's work on alternative energy sources, drilling in Alaska so we are less dependant on foreign oil, or pay people to dig up crap on Howard Dean (that shouldn't be hard).

My point is this... going to another country to remove an evil dictator -- I understand that. Knowing what kind of rock is on Mars and sending people there while the schools are crumbling. I think not... Hmmm... I must have an opinion on this issue. ;)


Garrett...if we waited on every single person to have a job and every single child to learn to read, and not a single pothole in America, we'd have never landed on the moon in the first place. Btw...I think parents should be held accountable if their kids can't read, not the government. It's fine for the government to teach them, but it's the parents responsibility to make sure they learn. ;)


Kelly... I didn't mean every person literally. We are in a time of high deficit and I find that no matter what president would do this, I would be opposed. Why? Because I find fiscally irresponsible. If we were in a time of surplus... then sure -- take that money and do something useful like space exploration. But I REFUSE to believe that space should take priority over domestic issues. Maybe I feel so strongly against the program because of my conservative Christian background, I don't know, but in this time of domestic crisis... if Bush looks beyond his country's economy (like his father did) and focus on something as unimportant to most middle class Americans then I can't vote for him.
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#15 Postby stormchazer » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:00 am

wx247 wrote:
southerngale wrote:
wx247 wrote:IMHO... no!!!! I was just discussing this with my grandparents over dinner.

Our schools are facing enormous cuts, homeland security is underfunded, we have a huge load to carry in Iraq, our roads are in need of major repair, need I go on??? I personally find it irresponsible to focus on Mars when there are people in this country who can't read.

You want to create jobs... let's work on alternative energy sources, drilling in Alaska so we are less dependant on foreign oil, or pay people to dig up crap on Howard Dean (that shouldn't be hard).

My point is this... going to another country to remove an evil dictator -- I understand that. Knowing what kind of rock is on Mars and sending people there while the schools are crumbling. I think not... Hmmm... I must have an opinion on this issue. ;)


Garrett...if we waited on every single person to have a job and every single child to learn to read, and not a single pothole in America, we'd have never landed on the moon in the first place. Btw...I think parents should be held accountable if their kids can't read, not the government. It's fine for the government to teach them, but it's the parents responsibility to make sure they learn. ;)


Kelly... I didn't mean every person literally. We are in a time of high deficit and I find that no matter what president would do this, I would be opposed. Why? Because I find fiscally irresponsible. If we were in a time of surplus... then sure -- take that money and do something useful like space exploration. But I REFUSE to believe that space should take priority over domestic issues. Maybe I feel so strongly against the program because of my conservative Christian background, I don't know, but in this time of domestic crisis... if Bush looks beyond his country's economy (like his father did) and focus on something as unimportant to most middle class Americans then I can't vote for him.


2003 Federal Budget numbers:

$58.9 Billion on Education
$539 Billion for Department of Health and Human Services
$530.8 Billion for Department of Social Security

Education funding decreasing?

· The Department of Education receives an increase from $39.9 billion in FY 2001 to $44.5 billion under the Bush proposal. This represents an 11.5 percent increase in budget authority and an increase of $2.5 billion or 5.9 percent over the FY 2001 program level. The Department received the largest percentage increase in the President’s FY 2002 budget of any Cabinet-level domestic agency.


Check for yourself:

[url]http//edworkforce.house.gov/issues/107th/education/nclb/bushbudsum.htm[/url]

Yes we have problems here. They are the same problems that people have had since the beginning of time. We will always be working on these issues. We have had the New Deal, the Great Society, but still there are poor and kids struggle in school. My daughter attends a 'C' school in FL but brought home a 3.5 GPA yesterday. Federal money did not achieve that.

Exploration has always been about the great unknown. We know not what the benefits may be. Columbus did not know he would discover a grand new world when he sailed in 1492. What if our trip to Mars yielded a cure for cancer. Would you feel different? How about a new fuel that eliminated greenhouse gas, was cheaper, and abundant. Would you change your mind?If we wait for everything to be perfect here before we explore space then it maybe too late. Check this out:

http://www.astrosociety.org/education/publications/tnl/39/sun2.html

Yes, it is an expensive proposition in difficult times, but we have to see what is out there, in order to find out what the benefits may be. I'm not sure if its a question of if we should go, but if we can afford not to.
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#16 Postby j » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:02 am

I am DEAD set against it (at this time anyway).

I'd much rather see the proposed budget shifted to homeland security and defending our borders.
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#17 Postby Lake Effect1 » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:26 am

no! we need to clean up all the mess on this planet ,before we screw up another.
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#18 Postby stormchazer » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:40 am

Lake Effect1 wrote:no! we need to clean up all the mess on this planet ,before we screw up another.


How should we do that?
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#19 Postby coriolis » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:38 pm

I'd like to send someone on a mission to my basement to start doing some laundry.
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#20 Postby wx247 » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:17 pm

j wrote:I am DEAD set against it (at this time anyway).

I'd much rather see the proposed budget shifted to homeland security and defending our borders.


Exactly j... and Jara, with all due respect I disagree.

You can spout numbers all you want and they look very large, but when it comes to dividing the money up, it isn't much.

I am glad you're daughter is doing well in school, but if there are hiring freezes, teachers laid off, new computers and textbooks unable to be purchased, extracirricular activities pulled, bus service being pulled I don't think we have enough money going to our schools. In the end, the generations that come after us won't have the tools needed.

Picture this... you mention cancer cures possibly being found on Mars. If you raise the price of tuition so high at a college/university that most can't attend you may miss your opportunity to train the person who develops what you find a vaccine. That may sound extreme, but it is not.

If we don't secure our borders and allow terrorists to cross over them and create havoc with terrorist attacks, what good is that key to reducing greenhouse gas??

My answer is simply this... we will never live in a perfect society, but there are many things that I believe need to be improved here first. If we then have the money, THEN go there.

How about this... would you give me 29 billion dollars right now to practice building cars that MIGHT withstand an asteroid killing the person inside should that ever happen?? I would hope that you would say no. Why? Because I believe that we are provided for and the person in charge of that isn't our president. I think you know who he is.
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