Interesting read on Kerry

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mf_dolphin
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Interesting read on Kerry

#1 Postby mf_dolphin » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:16 pm

Subject: Kerry


Sent to me by an old shipmate....

I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions.

The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch?

Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row.

Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all.

Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty.

There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people.

We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.

Keep smiling,

Mike
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#2 Postby southerngale » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:59 pm

Very interesting indeed! You'd never be able to hear from anyone like this through the media.
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#3 Postby azskyman » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:56 pm

Interesting read. One of my responsibilities in RVN after I proved to them that I could type my fingers off better than I could fire M-16's or carry radios on my back was preparing written documentation for awards and commendations for military officers. There was a whole beaurocratic process to go through, but we once tested that process by submitting an erroneous request for a Bronze Star for our company mascot appropriately named Bullshit.

Bullshit was a wonderful friend to all of us...took hostile fire without heading to cover and forever tested the food at the mess hall before we took a bite. He deserved the bronze star if anyone did.

Under joint initiatives with others in the office, I appropriately followed all proper channels to submit paperwork on a Lt Mast Scott (or something similar) of our battalion. Paperwork proceeded through the various levels and before long, our best friend Bullshit had a bronze star of his very own.

We certainly didn't do it to demean or diminish the value of that award for those who really earned it, but it did indicate that the process had some serious loopholes even though others questioned it along the way but perpetuated it on Bullshit's behalf all the way til the end.

Other than that particular incident, I stood fast on making sure that those who represented themselves in a certain way in order to earn a reward did, in fact, do the things that were listed. For a year, at least, those in our entire battalion who received any awards were held to some pretty strict standards by a simple Sgt E-5 from Illinois.
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#4 Postby mf_dolphin » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:02 pm

I hope Lt Mast Scott wore his medal with pride :-)

My uncle tald a story about his outfit in RVN. They were trying to get corrugated tin for their hooches and were told they weren't "authorized". Out of frustration they sent in an order for a F-105 Thunderchief. Within two weeks it was delivered by truck. :eek: He had pictures he used to show LOL The only real problem was he was in the Army and flew helicopters lol I guess supply didn't care what kind of flying unit it was LOL
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#5 Postby Anonymous » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:10 pm

Guys military service is not an issue you want to bring up in this election. Kerry is a decorated veteran and Bush used his last name to avoid overseas service. It's not an issue you can win on
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#6 Postby mf_dolphin » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:13 pm

Since when was duty in the National Guard a less than honorable thing? It's not about winning an issue but spending 4 months in country was not exactly heroic either. It curious that the issue of his service is being raised by veterans that were there.....
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#7 Postby Anonymous » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:19 pm

It's not that serving in the national guard is not honorable, that is not the point. The point is that both Bush and Kerry were children of privilege, and both could have avoided overseas service. Bush chose to do so, Kerry did not. It is not less than honorable to serve in the national guard but llet's be real-it was much MORE honorable for Kerry to choose to go to war than for Bush to chose to get a rather cushy national guard position. The national guard in 1970 was very different than the national guard today. And this is all assuming that Bush actually even showed up for his guard service which is HIGHLY debatable. I don't really want to get into this because its not an important issue in my mind, but the fact is that Bush supporters should try not to bring up military service as an issue because most people see that as an area where Kerry is much stronger than Bush
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#8 Postby mf_dolphin » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:25 pm

Kerry's record of "heroic" service is every bit as big of an issue IMO. I found the original e-mail that I posted raised some very interesting questions as to his actual service. 3 Purple Hearts with no hospital time? Your take on Bush's service is just not substaniated by the facts which you seem very willing to ignore. Pilots have always been a privileged group in the service since WWI. They didn't and still don't have to do a lot of things the rank and file do. I know because I spent 9+ years in the service. Anyone with any sense that could qualify for stateside duty took it without a second thought. That goes for regular duty as well as Guard and Reserve service people. The fact that Kerry had the bad luck to get stationed in RVN doesn't make him anymore heroic.
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#9 Postby Anonymous » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:30 pm

Well you're just wrong about that. Due to his privileged background, Kerry could have ducked service but did not. Bush did. I would have done the same thing Bush did-but I'm not running for president and don't ask don't tell would keep me out of the military anyway. Kerry got purple hearts for SAVING LIVES!The one man whose life was saved by Kerry campaigns with him and tells the story often. What does hospital time have to do with it?You're twisting the issue. I'm signing out now so don't expect further replies. This is a minor issue anyway in my mind-I am more worried about who the candidates are now than who they were 30 years ago. Nevertheless, the point stands
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#10 Postby mf_dolphin » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:35 pm

Bush did not "duck" service whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Not all "priviledged background" folks were exempted from the service. Your assumptions are just flat wrong. Question, did you ever serve in the service? If not, I suggest that you don't make assumptions about things that you have no background in....

Case in point, Purple Hearts are given for being wounded not saving lives. I find it curious that he got three but didn't spend any hospital time.
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#11 Postby azskyman » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:39 pm

Regardless of Mr. Kerry's military contribution...which was very real, he is about to go on the ride of his life in this campaign.

The fact that I spent some time in RVN figuring out how to decorate a company mascot does not detract from the overall contribution of ALL who went there, including Mr. Kerry.

The man will surely feel like he is back on the battlefield in the weeks and months ahead...and it will be crossfire of his own making that he will be caught in.
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#12 Postby streetsoldier » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:02 am

Uh, ert...Kerry TRIED to avoid service. He asked his draft board for an extension so that he could spend a year "studying in France"(?); when he was denied, THEN he entered Naval OCS, and not one minute before.

Note that he had already made a name for himself as an anti-war protestor on campus...and unless they were blind, his draft board MUST have taken note of that...and prevented his skipping out of the US, as his future good friend Bill Clinton managed to do.
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